Thursday, April 25, 2013 117 Comments

Bitcoin panic light flashing bright amber

The once confident Jon Matonis has changed his tune a little:
More than a decade ago, regulators nearly suffocated PayPal. Now it looks like they’re trying to squelch another disruptive, innovative payments system.

At least three exchanges in the U.S. that traded the digital currency Bitcoin have shut down, apparently as a result of guidance issued last month by the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. That agency has emerged as the top threat, at least in in the United States, to the decentralized Bitcoin network – more so than the widely reported price volatility and hacker attacks.
Matonis does not include the most telling parts of the Bradley Jensen interview (my transcript).  Around 17:30:

Jensen: "I have heard through the grapevine that FinCEN has prosecutions in the works for Bitcoin broadly speaking. My guess, based on the timing of the guidance, and what I had heard previously from the rumor mill about the prosecutions, is that FinCEN put out the guidance sort of ex post facto to justify the prosecutions that they're about to launch."

Interviewer: "So you expect this to happen within in the next couple of months..."

Jensen: "Again, I've heard different rumors, it's difficult to predict, but yeah. We knew that the prosecutions were in the works, and then later the guidance came out, it seems like a sort of CYA approach to how they're doing it."
Around 21:30:
Jensen: "We knew that these guidelines and these prosecutions were in the works, even last Congress. Ron Paul was the chairman of the House subcommittee that had jurisdiction over FinCEN, and he never had a single hearing on this. Congress has dropped the ball."

Interviewer: "Why is that, do you think?"

Jensen: "For a lot of people these are relatively obscure questions... I mean, Congress is a representative body that works to meet the demands of their constituents. Their constituents are demanding a balanced budget or gun control or immigration reform or something else... those are the issues that you deal with."
Jensen, like Foseti, has lived in and knows tha USG - the real one, not the one you see on TV:
What is the purpose of an alternative currency?

Let me answer that by analogy. What is the purpose of the internet?

If you’re reading this, you use the internet to read the often unorganized thoughts of a person with strange views on all kinds of subjects. Undoubtedly, facilitating such reading is one function of the internet. In reality, however, the internet is just a way for people to watch porn.

Similarly, an alternative currency might be a cool way to create a better store-of-value – one that’s free from manipulation of central bankers and large banks. In reality, however, it’s just a way for people to break laws governing financial transactions.
It's kind of a problem that (most of) Silicon Valley thinks it's governed by the TV Washington.  SV is a very confident place.  Very confident people have a way of thinking a new reality into existence.  Reality itself changes to conform to their confidence.  Sometimes this actually works.  Other times...

117 Comments:

Blogger August said...

This is what Bitcoin needs though. It either dies from this, or it proves itself the sort of decentralized, unkillable, mutant cockroach of the currency world.
They probably should have made it more anonymous than it is by default, but whatever. You have to start somewhere.

April 25, 2013 at 10:46 AM  
Anonymous nazgulnarsil said...

Napster died, but the genie could not be put back in the bottle. We shall see.

April 25, 2013 at 11:58 AM  
Anonymous Handle said...

These Guys are already on the case, trying to sell BTC-DeAnon services to treas.

For what it's worth, my grapevine says differently than Jensen's, and that BTC remains a tiny blip far out on the radar, of a perceived threat-level only slightly above "theoretical / hypothetical". The kind of thing some of your geeky subordinates are interested in, and trying, (most unsuccessfully, naturally) to get you interested in as well.

It takes a very long time for awareness to trickle up. I'm willing to bet you'll see no significantly disruptive moves this year. USG seems, in the short-term, to be leveraging FATF and LEOCMLU to encourage Japan to police Mt Gox et al.

But, in the long term? If BTC is widely adopted by problematic parties of various kinds? Well, it'll be escalation of force until mission accomplished.

Let me put it this way. It would be great for my career, and therefore greatly personally fulfilling to participate on the interagency working group that crushes BTC. I would not hesitate in the slightest, or have any ethical qualms. On the contrary, I would probably jump for joy and get down on my knees and thank my lucky stars for the great, rare opportunity to showcase my potential.

And I, and everyone else on there, would take my job seriously and genuinely try with all my talent, effort, and resources to destroy this thing. Don't you understand?! It makes my job harder! That's very bad for career advancement! And paying the mortgage.

-break-

In other news, Foseti and I are trying to put together some club meetings in the DC area. Let me know the next time you'll be in town.

April 25, 2013 at 11:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with the ringwraith. We shall see.

April 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM  
Anonymous carl spakler's soiled jock strap said...

"made it more anonymous"

anonymity and legit transactions are incompatible with each other. choose one or the other. bitcoin chose legit so it leaves a trail of every transaction so people are assured of it.

if it was completely anonymous, how could you tell if a transaction was on the up and up? you couldn't.

this will always be true. it's in the nature of what we want in money. no funny money that is.

April 25, 2013 at 1:51 PM  
Anonymous Handle said...

@carl:

Search for "zerocoin"

April 25, 2013 at 2:03 PM  
Anonymous Ken Hagler said...

This is completely unsurprising. When the Feds went after e-gold, they started by attacking the exchange businesses, and then moved on to attacking e-gold directly. The difference is that with bitcoin, attacking the exchanges is likely to be as far as it's possible for them to go.

The interesting question is whether that will be enough for them to accomplish their goal.

April 25, 2013 at 7:38 PM  
Blogger Stanislav Datskovskiy said...

Bitcoin users "set themselves up the bomb" by idiotically re-creating the centralized institutions of meatspace (banks, stock exchanges, etc.) Instead of building on the mathematical strong points of the concept, they have built enthusiastically on the human weak points, and will reap what they have sown.

There could, in principle, be a self-contained cryptocurrency where all interface with classical money and physical goods is handled using cryptographically-strong reputation tracking and human-free delivery mechanisms (drones and dead drops.) Bitcoin isn't it. Not because of any mathematical flaw, but simply because the users are dumb and complacent.

Now they will have to invent the parachute on their way down from the Empire State building. Or go "splat!" I'm betting on "splat."

BTC might retain a positive cash worth because there are still countries where enforcement of USG decrees is weak. The exchange rate will probably be something like one BTC for one 7.62x39 AK round. If that.

April 25, 2013 at 7:56 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

OT,

To further expand Supreme Leader's already immense enlightenment, I recommend he read Christopher Booker and Richard North's The Great Deception.

The authors analyze Western Europe's New Deal, EU-Federalism, how it germinated in the interwar years and how Britain's equivalent of our progressives, the Fabian Socialists and related technocrat/non-Communist lefties, tightened the noose around what's left of Britain's sovereignty. The result in America, Britain, and Western Europe the emergence of the Cathedral AKA unaccountable bureaucratic dictatorship of "enlightened" rulers who proven to be WORSE than any Communist dictator aside from death toll.

From a reviewer on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Deception-History-European/dp/0826471056

Booker and North have done yeoman work in exploring scores of original sources related to the modern European Union. Most impressively, they have returned to the 1920s, when the contemporary notion of "European Union" began. They note that an element of deception has been present since the very earliest years of the project, demonstrating that the idea's early exponents believed that their utopian ideals, whilst admirable, ought to be realized without the knowledge or participation of the member countries' peoples. In fact, Booker and North reveal that a strong tendency of the strain of Unionists which created the present Brussels regime has been to shun democracy by creating a supranational authority with no meaningful accountability to the people, whilst simultaneously subverting individual states' national sovereignty.

April 25, 2013 at 8:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This post is not entirely true. Squelching bitcoin from the stand point that it is a currency competitor...???

Huh....????

In actuality it is and was developed; as a commodity. By pure definition. A very complex yet strong commodity which can be used in exchange, trading, and even collecting. Extreme ups and down, daily sometimes...???? This is not a reflection of any national currency. Bitcoin and crpytocurrency; at this stage in its life it is merely a digital commodity.... and will always be. By design.

The problem here is bitcoin and related crypto-currencies, are entirely transparent. Every transaction is opensource, it's trackable. Every purchase or trade, it's trackable. Bitcoin is much more clean than any other currency the world has ever known.

Bitcoin is creating jobs in the USA and abroad. To squelch a billion dollar industry at this point is only going to have grand repercussions and lengthy court cases of which equate to even more tax payer money being squandered away...!!!!! This mindset is absolutely ludicrous.

It is a commodity which does fit a place in 21st century.

All statements here legally speaking are strictly allegations, and rumorville.

April 26, 2013 at 12:34 AM  
Blogger Debra said...

Undiscovered Jew : when your government, or your business, or whatever form of social entity becomes impersonal, and its members... ANONYMOUS and completely interchangeable, people's feeling of being responsible for their acts TO nameful, faceful other people evaporates.
The bigger, and further away government goes... the more it risks rendering the representation on which it depends to survive problematic.
I still think that you don't see to what extent the great Socialist Temple ? Synagogue ? Cathedral ?logically derives from the Enlightenment ideas that were already present... at the Reformation, to a very great extent.
On Bitcoin : it appears to represent a Babelian attempt to get around the State. Thus it attacks the State's legitimacy, and control. That means that money gets more abstract, more impersonal, more anonymous than it already is, and that's saying something...
And the more money goes that way, logically, the more WE (a collective "we") will react to control what appears to be multiplying ? exponentially out of all control. Like a nuclear reaction, maybe ? Like.. the stars in the sky, dixit God to Abraham ?
"Multiplying gold and silver" : how hubristic is our ambition... A modern variation on the alchemists' dreams ?
"Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien"...

April 26, 2013 at 12:39 AM  
Anonymous smith88 said...

@Handle

BTC will never be crushed in my opinion, and in my opinion it is not the problem. It's these bastards that are exploiting it for their own gain, abusing the BTC system to traffic things...

Fortunately or not its design (crypto currencies) and developers are law-abiding folks that yearn to push the edge of technology.

That being said I have some advice for anyone dealing with cases related to anonymous crpytocurrency purchasing of illegal substances.

Issues dealing with illegal activities and illegal sales using BTC need to look past was is used to trade. USD is less trackable; almost impossible in some equations...

Let's look at it this way. If you are searching to bounce on a case, at this point folks are using BTC, maybe some LTC. Folks need to create an app which will create paper trails; something visual to work with.

Since every transaction is trackable, you have to work with it, and BTC with work with you, I guarantee it. I know a big problem is that budgets are not exactly happy right now. Especially for some custom build apps to aid in this...

Sorry, just rambling for it's late. But I think there is a resolve to these issues that I personally know many, many folks are scratching their heads about.

April 26, 2013 at 12:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@Debra,

I think this point of view comes from a place with a lack of education on what bitcoin is, and what it was designed for. It is much more complex and finite then you are expounding. It wasn't designed to "crush" anything. That is a strong statement, yes.

Things that crush people in the US; this list which is manipulated and implimented by certain persons; it is much more grand...

For example, we see budget cuts on our air transportation.... which punishes who? The middle class, the folks that use general air travel the most.
The rich will still have their private jets, and they have no worry here...

On another note; for instance, the amount of Bitcoins to be created, there is a limit set in place. This is part of the built in value. We're not talking some limitless, pyramid scheme fantasy.

April 26, 2013 at 12:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>I promise - this is my last Bitcoin post.

>posts another bitcoin post.

Here is your quality comment.

April 26, 2013 at 1:46 AM  
Blogger August said...

When I suggested they should have made it more anonymous by default, I meant the bitcoin 'network' not the bitcoins themselves. If you want to be anonymous with them right now, you have to use something like TOR to make sure your bitcoin address doesn't get matched up with your IP address. If this were just part of the download, and it just worked, rather than being a pain like TOR can be, then I'd rate the chances of bitcoin higher. I still have hopes, but at the same time I wouldn't doubt USG is behind the denial of service attacks on various sites. They'll match up bitcoin addresses to actual houses later, when they are really hard up for tax money and need and excuse to take stuff.
Anyway, I think the 'inherent value' is going to be the network value, if it survives.

April 26, 2013 at 8:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bitcoins can't possibly be anonymous, since everyone always knows where every bitcoin is.

You get a bitcoin from your employer. You spend it somewhere. Everyone knows when you spent it, who you gave it to, and who they gave it to.

It's like if, to prevent counterfeiting, Uncle Sam had a database that everyone had to log every dollar transaction with the serial number in. Then made that database world-readable.

Also, Uncle Sam can pass out scrip saying "this note is legal tender for all debts" and "redeemable for one bitcoin" just as easily as he did with gold.

Moldbug, you said you weren't going to post any more bitcoin articles. Please go back to posting about how demotism ruined everything and the only way forward is to make a better Wikipedia.

April 26, 2013 at 8:54 PM  
Blogger Stanislav Datskovskiy said...

Anonymous said:

> Bitcoins can't possibly be anonymous, since everyone always knows where every bitcoin is.

It is quite possible to build a cryptocurrency where the authenticity of a "coin" can be verified without creating a permanent record of exactly where it's been.

Zerocoin is one attempt to retrofit this feature onto Bitcoin. But it would have been interesting to see it included from the start, and its absence is perhaps the best evidence for the "Bitcoin is an NSA honeypot" theory.

April 26, 2013 at 9:01 PM  
Anonymous OlioOx said...

More Bitcoin-related posts please MM, this is fascinating.

April 27, 2013 at 12:01 AM  
Anonymous OlioOx said...

By the way MM, what do you think of Max Keiser?

April 27, 2013 at 12:02 AM  
Anonymous Moses said...

If you were the newly installed King of America and you surveyed the landscape, what would you do with Bitcoin? Let's say you tell you central banker to run it up into $10,000 and keep a floor on prices......that's $100 billion injected into the economy. Look ma, no hands!

It can be acquired anonymously and government reports are notoriously released well after events take place. There's brisk business in Europe and even China, and its uniquely suited to move around currency controls. What type of organization could be set up to foster clandestine capital flows?

Maybe I'm off base, but the other day I even wondered if Bitcoin isn't actually something cooked up in an NSA or CIA lab. They did Stuxtnet and it has their fingerprints on it, how much better to birth something you have no control over and even seemingly oppose, and therefore can use effectively without raising suspicion?

April 27, 2013 at 6:28 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

The bigger, and further away government goes... the more it risks rendering the representation on which it depends to survive problematic.

There have been remote governments before, but never one where the bureaucracy/Civil Service is the government.

April 27, 2013 at 4:40 PM  
Anonymous Euro2cent said...

> If you were the newly installed King of America

This man has his thinking hat on.

Our owners (as Gore Vidal used to put it) either have a profitable use for BTC or not.

If they do not, they may let the children run around with the toy that keeps them amused. If it harms the crops, it gets snuffed.

Realpolitik, baby.

(And none of that "it's too soon to tell" Chinese seer shit. Those people get shit done, with few mistakes. Et pour cause.)

April 27, 2013 at 10:55 PM  
Blogger Debra said...

"There have been remote governments before, but never ones in which bureaucracy or civil service have been the government."
Think again...
Maybe the government has always resided in its bureaucracy... when the transmission of power is fragilized, perhaps a stable bureaucracy is the best guarantee that transmission (of power, and legitimacy) will occur ?
Perhaps the bureaucracy is the underside of the proverbial iceberg ?


April 28, 2013 at 6:42 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Good news, the Republican smart fraction is finally getting UR's message that the way to defeat the left is to financially fight the Cathedral rather than waste millions on a roll of the dice on a single November day every four years.

The libertarian Koch brothers plan to buy the Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tibune and six other newspapers and use them as a propaganda vehicle for capitalism.

As an Abe Lincoln partisan and revisionist I am gladdened. This sale would be a great step towards a robber baron restoration where America returns to rule by Hamiltonian business oligarchs a la 1865-1932 rather than the current crop of criminally insane late-Wilsonian technocrats.

The left rightly fears the Koch brothers maneuver because other wealthy Republican businessmen would be tempted to buy up more failing newspapers and use their new assets against the remainder of the Cathedral.

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/26/179179653/billionaire-koch-brothers-increase-their-role-in-u-s-politics

April 28, 2013 at 7:40 AM  
Anonymous Moses said...

Are the Koch Brothers smart enough to push the Overton Window? Imagine Steve Sailer with a phalanx of reporters.

April 28, 2013 at 8:55 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Are the Koch Brothers smart enough to push the Overton Window? Imagine Steve Sailer with a phalanx of reporters.

They're strong supporters of amnesty, sadly. According to Breitbart.com, they're colluding with Rubio and Grover Norquist to pass the Gang of Ocho bill.

However, they are shifting the political mean to the right by acquiring Cathedral newspapers. As the mean shifts to the right then HBD, which is outside the "acceptable" range of the political distribution, moves closer to edge of acceptability or actually enters the acceptable zone even if the Koch brothers don't support it.

April 28, 2013 at 9:05 AM  
OpenID mukatsuku said...

I'm baffled as to how (very) longtime UR commenter TUJ can see the Koch brothers as 'getting UR's message'.

The Koch brothers seek to influence the Cathedral through think tanks, universities, and lobbying/educating politicians, judges and MSM figures.

They stimulate the Cathedral immune system continually, as you can see at KochFacts.com .

They honor the Founders and believe in Lockean political philosophy.

If they buy the LA Times and the Tribune, those papers will become instant 'George Mason U.' irrelevant jokes. The NYTimes could invade the LA and Chicago markets with funding from Geffen-Pritzker-Berggruen-Broad-Slim. Or, the MSM could instantly decide to ignore the Trib and the LA Times from that moment forward, just like they ignore Reason-CATO-GMU.

April 29, 2013 at 1:15 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

I'm baffled as to how (very) longtime UR commenter TUJ can see the Koch brothers as 'getting UR's message'.

The message on how to fight the Cathedral, yes. Human bio-realism, no. Small "l" or big "L" libertarian government works best with demographic policies that heavily favor the white race, Koch bros. White characteristics are best suited for any of the major flavors libertarianism.

Although, since the Tribune papers aren't exactly HBD supporters, having the Koch's acquire the Tribune won't be a loss for HBD.

But enough digressing.

Limited outer party members though they are, at least the Koch brothers have a better understanding of how to defeat the Cathedral than they did before: Either cut off the money supply to the Cathedral or in this case buy up Cathedral assets and turn them against the *regressives.

The NYTimes could invade the LA and Chicago markets with funding from Geffen-Pritzker-Berggruen-Broad-Slim.

The left still loses territory in that case because the liberals own almost all of the major newspapers. From a military point of view the problem with holding almost all the major battlefield real estate is there's nowhere left for the hegemon to expand and they could lose assets anywhere.

If more news outfits either go kaput (e.g. the no longer in print Newsweek) or are purchased by outer party enemies then the debate will automatically shift the political mean to the right because the inner party's near 100% monopoly has nowhere else to go but down.

Or, the MSM could instantly decide to ignore the Trib and the LA Times from that moment forward, just like they ignore Reason-CATO-GMU.

Losing sizable Cathedral assets like the Tribune is not crippling but it makes their job harder. Western liberals require an enormous volume of (increasingly) low-quality propaganda to keep up with all of their lies. The Soviets and Nazis directed most of their propaganda towards major policy objectives and were able to churn out higher quality propaganda thanks to specialization.

The Cathedral is not Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, it's worse than either in every way except death toll.

The American left lies about every issue from the macro to the nanny state because it dominated by multiple bureaucracies where no single agency or dictator has 100% control over policy as Stalin and Hitler enjoyed 100% control of their policy making.

Any significant threat to their propaganda output is a threat to them because it's not possible to defend this many lies - lies on everything from race to Gaianism down to low carb diets and fluorescent light bulbs - through reliance on only a handful of high quality outlets such as the Times and Harvard.

It is more dangerous to the left to lose 70% of all the nation's humanities departments or 70% of all newspapers than to lose only Harvard or only the Times.

April 29, 2013 at 7:57 PM  
Blogger Matt Beck said...

TUJ: It is more dangerous to the left to lose 70% of all the nation's humanities departments or 70% of all newspapers than to lose only Harvard or only the Times.

You may be on to something here, and more power to the Koch brothers for at least entraining some dry air into the Cathedral’s propaganda hurricane. But as much as I would like to agree with you wholeheartedly, I have to point out one difficulty.

The Cathedral will still have the internet. I know this might shock many communicants of the Mainstream Right who, in true Protestant-Whig fashion, like to imagine that the advent of the internet was a victory for the little guys over the evil, repressive institutions of progressive orthodoxy (e.g. the newspapers). This entire mindset, however, is simplistic, self-gratifying, and extremely misleading.

Let us look back at the original post. The internet is really just a way for people to watch porn. The Platonic form of this somewhat cynical but truthful statement is that the internet is merely an instrumental entity which tends only to magnify preexisting cultural realities rather than create new ones of itself. The content predominating the internet is reflective of Western Culture’s underlying progressive values. Furthermore, we see that this is necessarily so. Apropos Moldbug’s earlier post on the demand for propaganda, it would seem that any attempt by the Kochs to deliberately inculcate Libertarian values amongst an American public that is in no mood for them, is fated to meet with limited success. It will be successful in certain quarters; the dittoheads may start reading papers again. But this faction-splitting effort is hardly “fighting the Cathedral.” The Cathedral exists not because it imposes itself on the longsuffering, resentful masses via editorial board and classroom and bureaucratic agency, but because a significant number of people still believe in it and want it.

That the internet is a monster of the Left none should now doubt. We saw how masterfully it was used during Obama’s last campaign to connect with his base. After a decade’s time, in the wake of the continued demographic and economic implosion of Western societies, the internet that most people know and use will have degenerated into a generic “Facebook.gov,” administered as a public utility and accessed through an Obamaphone, the lunatic prognostications of Ray Kurzweil notwithstanding. Bitcoin, to return to the original subject, is probably being scouted out as the prototype for a digital payment medium to be adapted to such a scheme. Either that or it will be killed off as viable competition. There is a very fine line between the two. But no matter how it transpires, digital payments will either be assimilated into the Cathedral or they will be suppressed. They are not going to kill the Cathedral, nor will a few Libertarian newspapers.

(con't.)

April 30, 2013 at 3:03 AM  
Blogger Matt Beck said...

(con't.)

All tyranny flows up from below; it is the masses who are primarily responsible for the continued strength of the Cathedral. In order to fight the Cathedral, then, it is necessary to cut the masses off from the realization of their ideals. This will probably mean destroying the internet, at least as we know it today. The development of the graphic interface, which alone made computer users out of ordinary people and enabled such phenomena as “the internet” at all, has meant the end of genuine computer science, just as the development of social media has put an end to all norms of public sobriety and restraint. All which would be fine and sturdy, as programming architecture and public decorum ought to be, must not condescend to the teeming mass nor in any way allow its participation. The destruction of fiat money too (of which Bitcoin is an instance), even more necessary than that of the graphic interface, will mean the relative impoverishment of most of the formerly middle class, while the current “welfare poor,” a new social class created by modern experiments in redistribution, will be relegated to the ranks of the more familiar working poor, known throughout history and the wider world.

Leave it to each soul to measure his true commitment to Reaction by the degree to which these statements cause him to balk. There is no other way to defeat the Cathedral, no other way to reverse the tides of revolution. The Cathedral is modernity; the culture is the Cathedral; and the internet is the culture. It all must be beat back, step by arduous step.

April 30, 2013 at 3:05 AM  
Anonymous RS said...

Beat it back step by step? Sounds arduous. It's usually better to acquire and cultivate new, better modes and habits than to combat existing ones grown questionable, a sage once told me.

April 30, 2013 at 2:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The message on how to fight the Cathedral, yes. Human bio-realism, no. Small "l" or big "L" libertarian government works best with demographic policies that heavily favor the white race, Koch bros. White characteristics are best suited for any of the major flavors libertarianism.

Do you support libertarian principles that would allow for the formation of a society that excluded from its territory you and people like you in some sense, including possibly race and/or ethnicity?

April 30, 2013 at 3:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I only support my own odious ass, 3pathetic 3:02 Cathedral flunkie.

The Popish Sauromatian

May 1, 2013 at 6:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, I got irritation get the best of me.

Given that It depends on what the meaning of is, is, and in light of Wer Jude ist, bestimme ich,
it all depends on what "you", "support", "libertarian", "principle", "that", etc. etc. etc. mean at the moment when the corresponding string of signs suffers a "living interpretation".

It is crucial that when talking with a anglosaxon, bastard thereof, flunkie of anglosaxon, or flunkie of bastard thereof, to remember that a word means just what the anglosaxon/bastard thereof / flunkie thereof chooses it to mean — neither more nor less.

It is a anglosaxon contraption this here Cathedral.

The popish sauromatian

May 1, 2013 at 2:21 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

It will be successful in certain quarters; the dittoheads may start reading papers again. But this faction-splitting effort is hardly “fighting the Cathedral.” The Cathedral exists not because it imposes itself on the longsuffering, resentful masses via editorial board and classroom and bureaucratic agency, but because a significant number of people still believe in it and want it.

I don't agree with you that the Western left represents the will of the proletariat. The proletariat left was embodied in the form of the violent socialist left, the Bolsheviks, Menshiviks, Anarchists, Narodniks, Jacobins, Mutualists, et al. Except for the Jacobins - who as Marx noted were the only revolutionists to successfully turn the middle class against the aristocracy - the base of support for the Continental and non-Protestant left came from the working classes. Unions were hotbeds of revolutionary sentiment throughout the 19th century right to the end of the Cold War. And they were a force to be reckoned with. A socialist-backed labor strike is what brought down the Kaiser after WWI. De Gaulle was driven from office by a French general strike.

Fortunately, this beast is dead everywhere except for a lone but heroic hereditary hermit holdout in Northeast Asia.

The modern Western left is not the old hard left. This left is derived from the Western social reformers: The US progressives, Jean Monnett Eurofederalists whom, let the record note, were bragging about a post-democratic technocracy at the very beginning of the interwar years, and the British Fabian socialists. The technocratic elite was always most heavily supported by the establishment. The proles were both uninterested and incapable of following social reform policy and economics.

May 1, 2013 at 5:55 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Continuing to Matt Beck,

The internet is not Cathedral because the Cathedral relies on monopoly power over her propaganda organs. The internet is a threat to the Cathedral because it makes low barriers of entry available for conservative media and because it turns internet versions of news and education outlets into just another website competing for eyeballs with countless other sites.

We saw how masterfully it was used during Obama’s last campaign to connect with his base.

Obama won with absurd levels of low quality propaganda from old fashioned Cathedral political outlets. And even then, hes would have lost if Republican turnout equaled 2004 levels.

The best way to defeat the Cathedral is still to either defund it via measures such as adopting online college classes for credit, or, if it can be done swiftly, buying out Cathedral properties a la the Koch brothers, flawed though their politics may be.

If the inner party's political assets are defunded or hijacked to the point where the Cathedral's assets are on par with the outer party's then outer party, which is to say the business class, would be well on its way to dislodging the late New-Dealers from inner party status.

This is because the New Dealers cannot win an honest debate about their policies since they're almost all total failures.

If the inner party's propaganda assets collapse (think along the lines of mass layoffs of liberal arts professors or mass layoffs of Tribune "journalists") then the outer party, which is the business class and not the Republicans who merely represent the business class, becomes the inner party again.

But make no mistake. When Moldbug finally knocks the inner party out of orbit with his mighty right arm and hurls it into the Sun, it will be the business class, and no one else, that resumes rule over America.

Der Mencist Staat will not immediately seize power in the vacuum left in the wake of the Cathedral's ultimate defeat. That will have to wait for centuries more of genetic engineering, terraforming, and mind probe development before humanity will be capable of withstanding the awesome techno-authoritarian glory that is to come. While we wait for Mencian utopia we would have to content ourselves with a robber Barron restoration.

May 1, 2013 at 6:24 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Do you support libertarian principles that would allow for the formation of a society that excluded from its territory you and people like you in some sense, including possibly race and/or ethnicity?

Yes, you may form your own ethnostatlet.

Yes you may exclude Jews from said statelet.

And yes, you may gas any Jews who wonder onto your statelet's territory.

Now go build the damned thing in the woods somewhere and shoo.

May 1, 2013 at 6:27 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Matt mentions demographic barriers to defeating the Cathedral. But, suppose the Cathedral's operations become severely hampered, how much would it matter? Without the Cathedral to minimize loses among whites, the consistent 58% white vote for Republicans quickly zooms well into the 60s, maybe 70s. And the minorities wouldn't know what day the election is being held without the late Wilsonians.

Remove the Cathedral from our political relationship diagram and the minority vote is proven to be the paper tiger it always was.

May 1, 2013 at 6:31 PM  
Blogger Stanislav Datskovskiy said...

On the off chance that there is someone who has not yet read it: Mr. O's definitive manual for the one non-negotiable physical requirement for "statelets" that want to remain such, rather than being rolled up into an empire. (TLDR version: nukes are sovereignty machines. The only effective ones presently known.)

Alternatively, the low-tech solution. (TLDR: be a Pashtun or the equivalent.)

May 1, 2013 at 6:44 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

(TLDR version: nukes are sovereignty machines. The only effective ones presently known.)

Ah, the nuke. Is there anything they can't do?

May 1, 2013 at 8:09 PM  
Anonymous Beck said...

Now go build the damned thing in the woods somewhere and shoo.

Go move to Israel.

May 1, 2013 at 11:23 PM  
OpenID mukatsuku said...

To be as clear as possible:

"Fighting the Cathedral" is not UR's message.

Telling the truth about it, preparing for contingencies, possibly conspiring against the Cathedral... are among UR's messages.

Fighting or defunding the cathedral - these are not UR's message.

TUJ should discover and own up to his differences with UR's message.

May 2, 2013 at 9:18 AM  
Anonymous Moe said...

The internet is bad for the Cathedral. It interferes with their monopoly on propaganda.

Conspiracy theory thinking is exploding.

Per a recent Pew Poll, 25% of people believe facts about Sandy Hook were hidden and 11% aren't sure if facts were hidden.

Those people are probably wrong about Sandy Hook and the Cathedral is probably right about Sandy Hook.

But it is still a significant failure of Cathedral propaganda. That should be seen as a good thing, no matter what nonsense they believe instead of the Cathedral's propaganda.

May 2, 2013 at 4:51 PM  
Blogger TGGP said...

Newspapers tend to be based in big cities, and the inhabitants of big cities are liberal. If a small town has its own local paper, it's likely to be to the right of the regional papers (although the labor pool of people who want to be journalists is always going to lean left). Talk radio is targeted at people who drive to work. Thus, it leans conservative. No way, no how, are the Koch brothers going to radically change the newspaper business. The best case scenario is the the Kochs sweat out a declining firm, which is actually less common than econ 101 would lead us to suspect.

May 2, 2013 at 5:49 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Telling the truth about it, preparing for contingencies, possibly conspiring against the Cathedral... are among UR's messages.

A curious statement. Understanding the Cathedral can only help to defeat it. And how is my message at odds with UR's wishes? If MM could press a button and drive a majority of America's humanities departments and newspapers into bankruptcy he would most surely opt to smite them.

Btw, the easiest way to knock down the liberal arts pillar of the Cathedral is to automate most liberal arts profs out of a job by having colleges accept online classes for credit:

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/gigaom/articles/2013_05_02_massive_online_courses_draw_more_backlash_from_college_professors.html

In an open letter (first published by the Chronicle of Higher Education) to the Harvard professor behind the course, the San Jose State faculty members argued that while they believe that technology can be used to improve education (by enabling instructors to record lectures so students can replay them, for example), they believe MOOCs could “replace professors, dismantle departments, and provide a diminished education for students in public universities.”

Not only do they worry about a future in which fewer perspectives are offered by universities (“the thought of the exact same social justice course being taught in various philosophy departments across the country is downright scary — something out of a dystopian novel,” they say), the professors argue that the MOOC model will lead to two classes of universities.

May 2, 2013 at 7:09 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

"Replace professors, dismantle departments" they say.

Have Tyler Cowen and Bryan Caplan commented on the virtues of wiping out the majority of American academic jobs through automation?

They're always singing the virtues of cheap labor and how white Americans have no choice but to compete against billions of imported third worlders who will do their jobs more for less money.

Well the online MOOC software can do Cowen & Caplan's jobs cheaper alright. Cheaper meaning it will work for $0.00 an hour, requires $0.00 worth of benefits, can teach millions of people at once, and never needs a vacation or rest.

They must both welcome competing against not cheap but free labor.

Do you feel scalable, Cheap Chalupas? Well, do you, punk?

May 2, 2013 at 7:19 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Newspapers tend to be based in big cities, and the inhabitants of big cities are liberal.

The newspapers have lingering credibility leftover from when they had close to a monopoly on news. Dwindling as it is, their credibility combined with electoral unaccountability from the consequences of their policies pushes the debate leftward because they survive the ballot box defeat of any Democrat politician.

If more of them are shut down or bought ought by right-liberals then the harder it is for the inner party to advance their policies.

No way, no how, are the Koch brothers going to radically change the newspaper business.

Again, a right-liberal takeover of the Tribune combined with the financial failures of other newspapers around the country weakens the left. Every decrease in propaganda output puts the outer party's propaganda organs closer to parity with the inner party. When the outer party (i.e. the business class using their Republican satellites) equals the the strength of the inner party then the Cathedral would be in danger of being driven out of power because they can't defend their platform unless the propaganda battlefield is skewed absurdly in their favor.

May 2, 2013 at 7:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Check this out...the Dark Enlightenment on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/DarkEnlighten/status/330397227006705665


Was just retweeted by Roissy....
...

May 3, 2013 at 12:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Human bio-realism, no. Small "l" or big "L" libertarian government works best with demographic policies that heavily favor the white race, Koch bros. White characteristics are best suited for any of the major flavors libertarianism.

Jews aren't white.

May 6, 2013 at 1:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Depends on the definition of "white". Jews are 'white' by any definition wider than white='celts+saksens+scandinavians'.

Maybe one even has to restrict to celts+scandinavians to achieve the adequate separation from the European Jewish bloodlines - given the 'promiscuous' behaviour and history of the saksen populations.

The Popish Sauromatian

May 6, 2013 at 7:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No. Jews are Semitic. Semites aren't white.

May 6, 2013 at 8:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ach, it's May...

flowers, warm sun, and the joys of internet trolling..

TPS

May 6, 2013 at 9:32 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

No. Jews are Semitic. Semites aren't white.

There is no Semitic ethnic group. "Semite" is LINGUISTIC term.

Btw, if Jews aren't white then why is it impossible to physically distinguish half-Jews from gentile whites? I'm not aware of any other nonwhite ethny that can hybridize with whites and almost always produce offspring who can't be distinguished from fully white people.

May 6, 2013 at 7:36 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

The genetic makeup of Jews is 50-60% Southern European, specifically ancient Greek and Roman converts to Judaism.

Interestingly, Razib says the Near Eastern portion of Jewish DNA is Anatolian Turk, not Levantine Arab, in nature.

Which means that the European Jews have little genetic connection to the original ancient Israelite Jews of the past.

If the Jews have little genetic connection to ancient Israel then how can Judaism be a group strategy if modern European Jews have only a flimsy genetic link with the ancient Hebrews?

May 6, 2013 at 7:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TUJ

We're talking tens of billions of dollars in profit you Zhyds were costing the likes of AngloDutch Oil, Nestle, and IGFarben, pardon me, BASF, with your undercutting of sales price and overbidding of purchase prices. Every single fucking year.

An economy cannot run properly (i.e. all profits to those that actually own the operation) if prices are set by the so-called "free market"! It got so bad, the coin provided by your merchant ancestors allowed TPS' redneck GDad the finest/latest electronics, and even a seaside timeshare! In a third world country!

What will come of the world if such resources have to be spent on peasants?

So science shmience, I hope you understand it was only business. Your folks needed to be stopped. Now Adolf got a little carried away, we're sorry for that. No hard feelings, yes?

The Popish Sauromatian
(also not owner of finest electronics and/or resort timeshares).

May 6, 2013 at 9:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Semitic can be a genetic term as well, since Semitic speakers and descendents of Semitic speakers correlate with certain genes and gene clusters.

Jews and part-Jews are physically distinguishable from whites. But we're talking about genes anyway. There are different species that are physically indistinguishable and are classified as different species. Jews have non-white genes and haplogroups. When they mix with whites they are replacing white genes and haplogroups.

May 7, 2013 at 12:09 AM  
Blogger Debra said...

Who wants to DEFEAT the Cathedral ?
Na.
Let's try to be.. subtle, reflexive, individual animals for a change.
We do not want to DEFEAT the Cathedral (whatever the hell that means, because I seriously doubt that there is consensus on this blog about what/who the Cathedral is. Perhaps it has the nebulous, abstract, disembodied status of.. "the enemy" ?).
When all is said and done, it still remains that each and every one of us has to decide.. WHERE ? he or she lives his life.
HOW he/she will occupy his time (and please, don't whine about how you don't have any choice, the question is, how much are you willing to pay/put out to exercise your choice) ?
Given that our individual acts and words are necessarily reflexions, and are grounded in... the ideas, and prejudices that we have, mostly unbeknownst to ourselves, moreover.
Enlightenment involves trying to momentarily see the mountain behind the heavy cloud cover that masks it. Before it disappears once again behind the clouds. It is the work of.. ONE man, or woman, an individual, and.. NOT A SOCIAL PLAN. It is not possible as utopia. (I hold this to be a not self evident truth.)
That is where our individual, and CONSIDERABLE personal power lies. If you believe the contrary... you have been successfully indoctrinated by the.. Cathedral.
And as for defeating the Cathedral, in a book written some three years ago, Elisabeth de Fontenay, a French intellectual of double appartenance, Catholic and Jewish, acknowledged that the Jewish people were well on the way to assimilation in Western Europe before WW2.
One of the effects of so much.. persecution was to consolidate Jewish identity to a point where it is difficult to ascertain to what extent we are talking about the Cathedral, or.. the Temple (think... polysemy for the temple, please, hint, hint..) today.
No persecution, friends.
You have to HELP your enemy to take him down, as my Grandma used to say...
Why have we turned our world into a two dimensional cardboard one, and can thus no longer understand these complexities ?

May 7, 2013 at 1:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Jews and part-Jews are physically distinguishable from whites."

Absolutely incorrect. See "erwünschter Bevölkerungszuwachs"

But anyway, this is not about some genes or some biology this is about the ~100,000,000,000 USD (in today's money) zhyds were costing the ruling caste on a per annum basis, as described above.

TPS

May 7, 2013 at 5:18 AM  
Blogger Debra said...

Too bad that my not French speaking friends can not profit from this link.
Thinking about its contents allows us to ascertain that the genealogy for the "Cathedral" goes right back to the formation of the highly centralized French nation state, and its persistent bureaucracy, which was reorganized after régime changes...
Enjoy.
http://www.piecesetmaindoeuvre.com/spip.php?page=resume&id_article=416),

May 7, 2013 at 11:28 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Semitic can be a genetic term as well, since Semitic speakers and descendents of Semitic speakers correlate with certain genes and gene clusters.

If you use the word Semitic as synonym for Arab then Jews still aren't very Semitic/Arab. Their Middle Eastern DNA is Anatolian Turk in origin per GNXP.

Jews and part-Jews are physically distinguishable from whites.

Wrong. Half Jews are totally indistinguishable from gentile whites. Even Hitler's Germany found it almost impossible to consistently discriminate against Mischlings and wound up handing out all sorts of exemptions to half-Jews.

But we're talking about genes anyway. There are different species that are physically indistinguishable and are classified as different species.

Which species are those?

May 7, 2013 at 8:11 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Your folks needed to be stopped.

Sir, it was the gentiles who invented capitalism, Adam Smith and all that good stuff. As usual, you are blaming Jews for "inventing" ideologies that are actually derived from gentile thinking.

It's a shame that you aren't willing to accept gentile responsibility for corrupting modern Jewry with gentile ideas (Communism is a German ideology), but I can see how you might be confused about history if you are prone to imagining a non-existent conflict of interest between elite Jews and elite gentiles.

Of course, there is a pattern of ethnocentric gentiles taking advantage of non-ethnocentric Jews to do the work of the gentiles.

May 7, 2013 at 8:18 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

We do not want to DEFEAT the Cathedral

*Raises hand*

May 7, 2013 at 8:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Absolutely incorrect.

They are distinguishable. And there are taboos against noticing them, naming them, counting them, etc.

May 8, 2013 at 12:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you use the word Semitic as synonym for Arab then Jews still aren't very Semitic/Arab.

I'm not using Semitic as a synonym for Arab. I said Semitic speakers and descendents of Semitic speakers correlate with certain genes and gene clusters.

Wrong. Half Jews are totally indistinguishable from gentile whites.

Jews and part-Jews are physically distinguishable from whites, and they're genetically distinguishable from whites. When they mix with whites they replace white genes and haplogroups.

May 8, 2013 at 12:13 AM  
Blogger Debra said...

How ironic that what caused WW2 rises from the ashes even on this blog... (Think that our Puritan ancestors referred to the NEW world as a new Jerusalem..)
Remember that in "Mein Kampf" the enigma of Jewish identity induced Adolf to develop an elaborate, justified system in response to the question "this man, this Jew, is he also German ?"
Once again, back to Elisabeth de Fontenay who muses that probably the idea ? word "people" originates in Jewish thought. Logical. That means that the modern nation state is considerably indebted to Jewish thought for its very existence. The granddaddy of all "peoples" is that one that was led OUT OF SLAVERY into the wilderness, and spent forty years wandering around before getting to colonize Canaan. In our minds, at least.
On the separation of Jewish/gentile (but remember that "gentile" in Antiquity refers to those people who were not Jewish, thus pagans. And.. the pagans were not initially Christian way back when.), it is once again logical to think that Jewish and Christian identity are inseparable. One beast with two backs. What touches and attacks one... touches and attacks the other. Ultimately. Which is what industrial neo-paganism is doing.
Talking about one entity corrupting the other, well, that is a little idealistic for my mind.
I'm not really keen on corruption arguments.
The fundamental corruption is the one going on every second, every minute, every hour, every day of our lives, in the ongoing march of time in our world.
Inevitable.. decay, coupled with rebirth, in a process in which they are inseparable. As inseparable as.. Judaïsm and Christianity ?
Which means that we will continue haggling like rabbis over who is Jewish and who is not ??
Even the neo-Nazis ??

May 8, 2013 at 1:02 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

spm aThey are distinguishable.

How would you know Matthew Broderick, Alison Brie, Lauren Conrad and Scarlett Johanson are half-Jewish if you knew nothing about them and saw them sitting at a table?

What physical characteristics do half-Jews have that allow them to be distinguished from regular gentiles?

May 8, 2013 at 7:35 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

On the separation of Jewish/gentile (but remember that "gentile" in Antiquity refers to those people who were not Jewish, thus pagans. And.. the pagans were not initially Christian way back when.), it is once again logical to think that Jewish and Christian identity are inseparable.

A very healthy sentiment to have about Jewish-gentile relations.

The "Judaism" of most elite Jews, Reform Judaism, is afterall nothing more than a Protestant denomination. Reform was established as Lutheranized Judaism by German Jews to assimilate into German culture.

A shame that so many here, on a Zionist partisan blog no less, have been confused into thinking Jewish assimilation into leftist gentile culture is a Jewish scheme when in fact the Jews are merely a front for the elite gentiles.

May 8, 2013 at 7:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jews and part-Jews are physically distinguishable from whites. Jews, especially celebrities, alter their appearance, undergo plastic surgery, bleach and dye their hair, etc. Jews are genetically distinguishable from whites, and when they mix with whites they replace white genes and haplogroups.

May 9, 2013 at 2:19 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Jews, especially celebrities, alter their appearance, undergo plastic surgery,

What facial features do half-Jews need to alter to look like normal gentiles?

Jews are genetically distinguishable from whites,

All white ethnic groups can be distinguished from other white ethnic groups. Danes can be distinguished from English, this doesn't mean the Danes aren't white.

May 9, 2013 at 7:49 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Jewish Middle Eastern DNA is derived from converts from Anatolian Turk populations, who are similar to Caucuses ethnic groups like Armenians, Georgians, etc.

Which means that the Ashkenazim have little genetic connection to the original Isrealites population.

Minimal genetic link to ancient Hebrews means that Ashkenazim can't be pursuing an "Jewish ethnic strategy" because they aren't derived from the Jewish population that originally created Judaism.

And Askenazim are descendents of CONVERTS to Judaism, which means not even the original Israelites were pursuing an ethnic strategy.

Your crow is served, anti-semites:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/08/ashkenazi-jews-are-probably-not-descended-from-the-khazars/#more-17667

Setting aside the historical fuzziness of the paper, the major issue I have is that though the methods are totally kosher, so to speak, the data you put into them strongly shape your outcomes. Dienekes and Maju both anticipated my own key concern. The “Middle Eastern” aspect of Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry might in fact be most well represented by populations in the zone of the northern Fertile Crescent and Eastern Anatolia; rather near or overlapping with the homelands of several of the Caucasian populations used in the above study as a proxy for Khazars.

May 9, 2013 at 8:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re: troll postings @
May 7, 2013 at 12:09 AM
May 8, 2013 at 12:13 AM
May 9, 2013 at 2:19 AM

Pleae note that no fundamental heresies against Cathedral doctrine or outright anti-jewish utterances are yielded. The trollposts provide the standard antizhyd appetizer fare, but never the full on "zhyds are spawn of Belzebub, and will be burn-offered to Baal" main course.

I suspect we're dealing with a NSA/FBI employee or subcontractor trolling blogs for the next mark.

How embarrasing if a computer savy blogger would finger the source as some gub'mint server or somesuch.

TPS

May 10, 2013 at 7:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The fact that the Ashkenazim don't derive from the original Israelites wouldn't make them white.

May 10, 2013 at 2:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ May 10, 2013 at 7:35 AM,

Not really sure what you're getting at. I don't think the NSA or FBI engages in "anti-Semitic" internet activity. If anything it's probably done by Jews themselves and the JIDF, Mossad, etc. or something.

May 10, 2013 at 2:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Absolutely correct. Thus, your posts.
TPS

May 10, 2013 at 5:13 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

The fact that the Ashkenazim don't derive from the original Israelites wouldn't make them white.

Well, it completely blows up the possibility Judaism is an ethnic strategy if Ashkenazim are descendents of Greco-Roman-Armenoid converts to Judaism. No?

May 10, 2013 at 7:35 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Regarding their whiteness, most Ashkenazic Near Eastern DNA is derived from Anatolian Turks who are derived from Armenoid populations who live in or came out of the Caucuses, e.g., the Armenians, Georgians, Azeris, etc.

Most of those populations can pass for white.

When you consider Jews are 50-60% European (mostly Southern Euro) it becomes hard to argue against the whiteness of Ashkenazi because most people would consider an American who is 50% Southern European and 50% Armenian to be ethnically white.

May 10, 2013 at 7:42 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

The "Ethnic strategy" explanation for liberal Jewish behavior has to be the stupidest of all anti-semitic theories because Jewish ethnocentrism positively correlates with conservatism, not liberalism, as evinced by the right wing politics of Orthodox and secular Russian Jews. The ethnocentric Yidden are the Haredi rabbis carrying assault rifles in the West Bank settlements. Those are a completely different breed of animal from the champagne socialist ethnic Jews of Manhattan who are less concerned about "Jewish" interests than Andrew Cuomo and Nancy Pelosi are concerned with Catholic interests.

The classic anti-semite "rootless cosmopolitan" charge is closer to the truth because liberal Jews gave up their tribalism to fit in with gentile modernity.

May 10, 2013 at 7:50 PM  
Blogger Debra said...

I think that it is rather.. naïve ? to believe that science is going to give us a TRUE (i.e. not religious, or mythic) "answer" to the "who is Jewish" question.)
Without having to bow down before "scientific" genetic research, that there book establishes nomadism as a key property of the Jewish experience. (Incidentally, why is it "antisemitic" to remark on "rootless cosmopolitanism" ? This is even more ironic now that most of us are... rootless cosmopolitans... Jewish or not. And is it antisemitic to remark that MAYBE... one of the reasons why so many of us are rootless cosmopolitans COULD have something to do with Judaïsm ? Why is it antisemitic ??)
That there book, in Ruth, establishes Ruth, a furreigner, and a pièce rapportée (think alliance) as a key ascendant for the still to come Messiah.
Tribalism, maybe, but since Jesus's time, tribalism around two axes : the study of that there book, and the practice of the 600 mitzvahs that a good Jew practices in his daily life. (And here, the wife/mother's role is extremely important as the private, not PUBLICized nurturer of the private side of the FAITH.)
Now... just what Judaïsm can possibly be if its people are not believers in the Jewish FAITH...well, that question has not yet received an acceptable answer. Simply observing the Mizvahs is enough/sufficient to be Jewish ? Can one observe the Mizvahs without giving faith to the Jewish God ?
If allegiance to the Jewish FAITH does not constitute Judaïsm, then just what OTHER allegiance (or alliance ?) DOES constitute it ??
Historically, a people who have been.. DISPERSED are alienated from a form of "enracinement" in the land. They are alienated from their physical roots in place.
And this alienation has far reaching consequences for what binds them together as a group.
Is it antisemitic to remark on this ?
Why ?

May 11, 2013 at 12:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Debra,
The only reason we have a "Jewish question" is that jews were costing wiseguys 100 billion USD per annum.
.
Philosophizing about this or that of the jewish people or any people group or even individual is nice, but the "jewish question" as it came to fore in the XXth century is simply about those 100 billion USD.
.
We could also touch on how a jewish knowhow + arab muscle could give the London-DC axis serious heartburn.
.
Ironically, given the historical jewish loanshark cliché, "follow the money" is the easiest path to rational explanation.
.
The Popish Sauromatian

May 11, 2013 at 7:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TPS,

Re: 100 billion USD, source please?

A sheynem dank.

May 12, 2013 at 10:44 AM  
Blogger Debra said...

You intrigue me, Popish Sauromatian.
Do you realize to what extent the very structure of your thought, i.e. the thoughts you think, and the thoughts you ARE ABLE TO think, is dependant on the mother of the monotheisms, Judaïsm, and the way it frames the world, sticking it into a big box that you are thus able to perceive ?
"Follow the money" is an excellent example of idolatry of filthy lucre...
Idolatry of filthy lucre is the dark side ? of Jewish thought. Its negative.
On philosophizing..
If more people were philosophizing, maybe there would be less.. idolatry of filthy lucre, and.. our money would mean more to us than it does right now ? (Ironic how, in a situation of idolatry of filthy lucre, money is actually worth... diddly shit in our eyes. Oh well, we are not at une paradoxe près, as we say in French.)
Nothing like cynicism for taking your civilization down, she says...
No trust, no currency, in any way, shape, or form.

May 12, 2013 at 11:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I meant "follow the money" as in "cui prodest" and obviously, who doesn't (e.g., me and my). As to the ability to think non-JudeoChristian thoughts, the Suaromatian blood does run deep.
TPS

May 12, 2013 at 1:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This sums it up nicely, I think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAq9x8JXxSU

May 12, 2013 at 2:52 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

just what Judaïsm can possibly be if its people are not believers in the Jewish FAITH...well, that question has not yet received an acceptable answer.

Secular Judaism is Lutheran. Look up the history of Reform Judaism and you'll see Reform has little if anything to do with legitimate Jewish theology.

Not that this will stop the anti-semites from imagining a non-existent conflict of interest between Jewish and gentile elites.

100 billion USD, source please?

I'd also like to see where that # comes from.

May 12, 2013 at 6:55 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

As the Supreme High Commander is well aware, the Cathedral has taken down Dr. Richwine for stepping outside the acceptable range of the Overton Window. Surprised though the Cathedral took this long to take him out.

This suggests they're getting sloppy, as does the increasingly poor quality of Cathedral propaganda.

The New York Times oh so wants to be The Economist but doesn't have the writing talent to pull it off. I suppose the Times is better than the Financial Times which, so far as one can tell, does nothing but issue press releases in defense of Brussels' technocrat Junta which is waging TotalKriegin against Europe's economy. At least Episcopalian Pinch allows his paper to write something other than a DNC press release.

May 12, 2013 at 7:05 PM  
Blogger Debra said...

Don't forget that Spinoza managed that unbelievable feat of getting excommunicated at the time...
Rationalizing the faith was as destructive of Judaïsm as it was of Christianity, in the long run.
Who wants to believe (exclusively...) in a.. rational principle, or an ensemble of abstract, disembodied natural forces (dixit Descartes) ?
A little... unexciting, maybe, for hot blooded animals ? A let down, on your death bed, when SOMEBODY (an incarnated representant) to hold your head, and your hand is a little more comforting than a disembodied principle ?
Oops... I forgot that during the height of a 17th century where the.. passion of reason reached fever pitch (in France, at least), lots of people got burned at the stake... under an Inquisition that was not principally, under the Church's jurisdiction...(in France, once again).
As for the idea that secular Judaïsm is Lutheran, that sweeping statement is... a sweeping statement.
I don't know many people who call themselves "Jews" who would accept an interchangeable Lutheran label... And vice versa.
That identity problem goes beyond the rational considerations of the shadowy and abstract "content" of a belief system.
Ironically enough, there is a community of ideas which certain Muslims share with certain.. Republicans in the U.S. In revolt against what many here call the Cathedral. But although there is a common basis for these groups to revolt against the Cathedral, they cannot go beyond their.. identity to find common ground to revolt against the Cathedral.
To sum up... you don't always behave in a rational fashion that dictates... your best interest, huh ?
Whether or not there is money involved, moreover...

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May 13, 2013 at 1:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TUJ,

It's only an estimate, which I just realized may be on the low side. 10 million euro-jews, 5 million male, ~20% involved in commerce.

That's 1 million Jewish merchants.

These guys have to offer a better price than the alternatives, and share the profit with the likes of my Grand-Dad. I mean my GDad was a man of business, who went for the largest reward for his hard work. So say they split 50-50. The jewish merchant must have averaged about 50k per annum - in today's money (4 k per month) to be able to support the family (i.e jewish merchants were not beggars, rather had decent houses and families were well fed).

So 1 millionx100k= 100 billion.

However, that's a lowball. Because, they decreased sale prices and increase purchase prices for the entire economy - as wiseguys had to come close to the prices jews were charging / offering their clients.

So if jewish merchants account for 20% of the european commerce, that may give us as much as half trillion USD (in today's money) that jewish merchant network was costing the wiseguys.
.
Which explains why my peasant GDad could afford a seaside timeshare and the finest electronics, while I don't despite me being a white collar worker, and presumably having the same work ethic ability as my GDad. Even the little I have, is only through mutually beneficial interactions with local jews, as crackers would have been content to keep me at 40% of my current remuneration (talking post-tax).
.
To make a long story short, eurojews were costing wiseguys at least a few good hundreds of billion dollars. Whether it's 3 or 5 or 7 is beyond my power of rough estimation.
.
But it was a lot, and explains the efforts of the ubermensch to wipe out the Jews.

The Popish Sauromatian

May 13, 2013 at 7:46 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

So if jewish merchants account for 20% of the european commerce, that may give us as much as half trillion USD (in today's money) that jewish merchant network was costing the wiseguys.

Assuming your numbers have any connection whatsoever with reality then shouldn't the "wiseguys" have focused more on the 80% of European gentile merchants?

May 13, 2013 at 6:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The gentile merchants ARE the wise guys. TPS

May 13, 2013 at 8:55 PM  
Blogger Debra said...

So... you think you have the same work ethic ability as Granddad ?
How old are you ?
In 1979, when I was a faltering 25 year old or so, I dimly realized that my Daddy was at the top of the social ladder, and that it was HIS generation that fulfilled what is often called the American dream (in our family, at least)... you know, the rags to riches paradigm (but spare me the "self made man" dogma... there really aren't too many of those around).
Where do you go from the top, guys ??
It's a needling question for the following generations.
Saint Francis found his answer to that everpresent question in the 1200's or so...
The work ethic has bottomed out since "we" have decided that TOUS/ALL men are born natural aristocrats, and should be able to live as such.
Aristocrats don't get their hands dirty with dirty things like work.
No, aristocrats lie around, or sit around most of the day, munching on popcorn, and watching the Internet.
They avoid... lifting a finger, or a leg, whenever possible. Aristocracy oblige.
At least, that's the aristocratic IDEAL...
How much is hard work worth in a society that decrees that all men are born natural aristocrats ?
Undiscovered Jew, I still consider that you have not come to terms with the consequences of secularizing the Jewish faith/God, and turning both into.. ideology. Neither have you, Popish Sauromation.

May 14, 2013 at 12:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Re:GDad

Ou sont les neiges d'antan,
n'est-ce pas?

TPS

May 14, 2013 at 6:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear TPS,

Alot (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D_Z-D2tzi14/S8TRIo4br3I/AAAAAAAACv4/Zh7_GcMlRKo/s400/ALOT.png) of numbers in your post. Again, source please?

Vielen Dank, Kamerad.

May 14, 2013 at 6:57 AM  
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May 14, 2013 at 9:41 PM  
Anonymous Osama bin Laden said...

The ruling to kill the spammers and their allies is an individual duty for every netizen who can do it, in any blog in which it is possible to do it.

May 15, 2013 at 5:40 AM  
Anonymous Radan Rusanov said...

Goddamn, it actually happened!

http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/299921-feds-crack-down-on-bitcoin-exchange

My respect for Mr. Moldbug has jumped from "theoretical" to "practical".

May 15, 2013 at 12:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Attn: TUJ

Faggot leftists at metafilter are agitating against MOOCs.

http://www.metafilter.com/128051/Laptop-U

Plenty of links in the discussion from cathedral sources (like the new yorker).

They know that something is up.

May 16, 2013 at 3:44 AM  
Anonymous notarikon said...

in twitter-speak, TUJ = Thank U Jesus

May 16, 2013 at 11:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The mother fo all distractors, huh? Bitcoin is so big, that the Jews'n'Jesus distrction card has to be played?!?

WOW!

TPS

May 17, 2013 at 9:34 AM  
Anonymous notarikon said...

yes, i am a cathedral agent pretending to be a netnazi, unleashing our last-resort TLA WMD in order to undermine moocoin

or i could be a shapeshifting troll

May 17, 2013 at 3:02 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Whatever notarikon's intentions are, the liberals are correct to fear MOOCs.

Look what we have here, price competition* on the order of a 1/6 tuition cut for a Masters. And tis' no meager University of Phoenix tech degree but a bonafide Masters in CS from the fifth ranked school in the field, Georgia Tech:

* http://allthingsd.com/20130514/udacity-will-offer-masters-degrees-in-cs-from-georgia-tech/

Georgia Institute of Technology's College of Computing will offer a Master of Science degree that can be completed entirely online through the massive open online course (MOOC) format. The university will offer the Online Master of Science in Computer Science (OMS CS) degree program to select students during its pilot program, set to begin in the next academic year, with enrollment gradually expanding over the next three years.

Georgia Tech has partnered with MOOC provider Udacity and AT&T to offer the program. The course content will be delivered entirely online through the Udacity platform, with enhanced support services for students who are enrolled in the degree program, and AT&T is providing financial support. Enrollment in the pilot program will be limited to a few hundred students recruited from AT&T and Georgia Tech corporate affiliates.

The OMS CS courses will be available for free to anybody, but only those students admitted to the Georgia Tech degree program will receive credit for the courses. Students enrolled in the degree program will pay tuition based either on individual courses or the entire program. Georgia Tech estimated tuition for the entire degree program will cost less than $7,000. The university and Udacity also plan to offer a separate credential for students who complete the courses successfully but don't qualify for full graduate standing in the program.

May 17, 2013 at 6:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thought this was interesting.

Type the following into google

"i hate left wingers" : About 21,000 results

"i hate right wingers" : About 119,000 results

"i hate leftists" : About 44,000 results

"i hate conservatives" : About 186,000 results

"i hate democrats" : About 180,000 results

"i hate republicans" : About 432,000 results

"i hate protestants" : About 47,200 results

"i hate catholics" : About 95,300 results

"i hate noam chomsky" : About 12,300 results

"i hate bill o'reilly" : About 160,000 results

May 19, 2013 at 5:04 AM  
Anonymous methodology, who needs it said...

"i hate liberals" : About 517,000 results

"i hate bush" : About 1,070,000 results

"i hate obama" : About 1,910,000 results

"i hate the cathedral" : About 345 results

"is there a point you're making" : About 578,000 results

May 19, 2013 at 6:43 AM  
OpenID polymathblogger said...

I can often tell a half-Jew and sometimes a quarter-Jew from someone with no Jewish ancestry. But they blend in quite continuously, so some half-Jews and many quarter-Jews can "pass". I am half-Jewish myself, while my mother's side is British/Irish, and I look less Jewish than most half-Jews, but still enough so that people sometimes think I'm Jewish. (My father converted to Christianity before he met my mother, and his family was irreligious anyway, so I never felt Jewish at all; he looks no more Jewish than I do though his parents looked obviously Jewish).

And yes, Matthew Broderick and Alison Brie and Scarlett Johansson all look half-Jewish to me and there isn't even any difficulty in noticing that. They are good examples of combining the best features of Ashkenazi and European looks in a way that strongly appeals to both groups.

May 19, 2013 at 6:46 PM  
Blogger DR said...

MM was right... partially. USG appeared to unleash the fury on the primary Bitcoin exchange.

However he was wrong about this causing Bitcoin to tailspin to zero. The price has been far more stable over the past week, barely budging from the 120-125 range. If anything FinCEN's action may have actually stabilized the Bitcoin market by stymying the flow of hot money.

May 20, 2013 at 8:24 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

And yes, Matthew Broderick and Alison Brie and Scarlett Johansson all look half-Jewish to me and there isn't even any difficulty in noticing that.

The one distinguishing characteristic half-Jews which I've noticed is that we have a strong tendancy to be baby-faced, more so than either the gentile or Ashkenazi average. But that's not a significant giveaway because there are plenty of neotenous full gentiles. Aside from neoteny, I don't see how half-Jews are distinguishable from other gentiles.

Halfies don't have the classic Armenoid features of full Ashkenazi Jews such as having a "pinched" face or long, Armenoid nose.

They are good examples of combining the best features of Ashkenazi and European looks in a way that strongly appeals to both groups.

Brie and Johansson's breasts certainly got a discernible "hybrid vigor" boost.

May 20, 2013 at 8:44 PM  
Blogger Debra said...

The liberals are not the only ones who have something to fear from computerized education...
When we eliminate relationships between living, breathing, flesh and blood people in favor of virtual machines, I say that we all have something to.. fear ? get angry about ?
Since you point out how... malleable and suggestive the human animal is, Undiscovered Jew (and not just the Jews, or half Jews, please... we are all Jewish now anyway), just how well are our relationships with living, breathing, human animals doing these days ?
I don't believe they are doing very well...

May 21, 2013 at 12:48 AM  
OpenID polymathblogger said...

The one distinguishing characteristic half-Jews which I've noticed is that we have a strong tendancy to be baby-faced, more so than either the gentile or Ashkenazi average. But that's not a significant giveaway because there are plenty of neotenous full gentiles. Aside from neoteny, I don't see how half-Jews are distinguishable from other gentiles...Brie and Johansson's breasts certainly got a discernible "hybrid vigor" boost.

Well, you identified much of what I was going to say if you asked for details of my recognition criteria, which gives me confidence I am noticing something real. The way I would put it is that half-Jews have a combination of softness and sharpness in the facial features which is hard to describe but easy to recognize. Robert Downey, Jr. is another example (1/4 Russian Jewish, the rest being Irish/Scots/German/Swiss), as are Peter Sellers, Winona Ryder and Carrie Fisher. (I knew Ryder was half-Jewish but just guessed about the others from their looks and then confirmed it; I also guessed Jack Nicholson and one of the two candidates for his uncertain paternity was Jewish.)

I'm not aware of any distinctive features in the male frame, but the women tend to be busty and broad-hipped, and your "hybrid vigor" is a plausible explanation (if Jewish women and European women were selected for curviness independently, as seems likely, a hybrid will get some of both, and to the extent those genes are dominant the phenotype will be exaggerated).

May 21, 2013 at 4:45 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Nicholson never struck me as half-Jewish because his features are, as you put it, sharper than the half-Jewish normal. Though since you brought it up I can see a resemblance.

Regarding breast size and hips, the most recent DNA evidence suggests Ashkenazim are 50-60% Southern European (most likely Italian.) The remainder is Anatolian Turk.

Significant Southern European ancestry is sufficient to explain half-Yenta curviness as Mediterranean women's figures are more hour-glass like than is the build of taller Northern European ladies.

May 21, 2013 at 8:13 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

When we eliminate relationships between living, breathing, flesh and blood people in favor of virtual machines, I say that we all have something to.. fear ? get angry about ?

A risk I'll happily take if software can wipe out the jobs of most tenured academics outside the science and business depts, though even those will be reduced in size.

The professors, afterall, support subjecting us all to imported cheap third world labor so they should share in the private sector's joy by competing against not cheap but free labor that can be scaled to serve millions of students at once.

May 21, 2013 at 8:23 PM  
Anonymous William McDoggerel said...

In the absence of a new UR post, I have decided to fill the void myself, by writing a poem about the Boston bombing, Dominique Venner, and Bitcoin.

There once was a race called the whites
Who used science to win all their fights
Then they deemed all men equal
And now in the sequel
They have lost all their ethnic, cultural, and monetary rights.

Please be gentle in your criticism, it's my first attempt at reactionary poetry.

May 22, 2013 at 4:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the meantime, children, please give a warm welcome to Mechanical Orange LONDON!
TPS

May 22, 2013 at 1:46 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

In the meantime, children, please give a warm welcome to Mechanical Orange LONDON!

You call that London?

This is London:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10074833/Woolwich-attack-terror-returns-to-Britains-streets.html

May 22, 2013 at 3:10 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Late Fabian London, to be exact.

May 22, 2013 at 3:13 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

In lieu of the Woolwich atrocity, I must again emphasize comparing Western technocrat liberals to Communists is an uncalled for insult to Communism that warrants you being sued in American court by Kim Jong Un and Fidel Castro for libel.

Would Stalin, Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Kim Jong Il, Pol Pot, or Mao have tolerated unauthorized violence on this level? Of course not. Oh sure, Communist authorized killings exceeded that of the Western left. But that's only because the US Progressives, EU Federalists, and British Fabians can't kill on as a large a scale as uncle Joe could, smaller destruction a la like Waco notwithstanding.

The second the bureaucratic left gets their hands on the power to kill at will they will exceed the combined death toll of both Communism and Nazism in a few years. If not weeks. And you won't even be allowed a cigarette in the academic gulag.

May 22, 2013 at 3:27 PM  
Blogger Mitchell said...

Three weeks of silence in the comments! We must all be learning the art of wuwei...

June 14, 2013 at 1:54 AM  

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