Saturday, July 7, 2007 21 Comments

A typical moderate-liberal-constitutional-monarchist thought

Punditry is certainly tiresome, which is why I try to avoid it. But this idea of Hegel as a "moderate liberal" is so astounding that it really can't go unchallenged.
If the state is confused with civil society, and if its specific end is laid down as the security and protection of property and personal freedom, then the interest of the individuals as such becomes the ultimate end of their association, and it follows that membership of the state is something optional. But the state’s relation to the individual is quite different from this. Since the state is mind objectified, it is only as one of its members that the individual himself has objectivity, genuine individuality, and an ethical life.
Now, who said this? Was it Burke? Bolingbroke? Acton? Kuehnelt-Leddihn? Or anyone else that a reasonable person might associate with the phrase "moderately-liberal constitutional monarchist?" Monarchist it may be, constitutional it may be, "liberal" perhaps if only in the 2007 sense of the word, but "moderate"?

In case this is out of context, readers are invited to peruse Hegel's State on their own. (I'm afraid I don't share this passion for secondary sources.)

It's certainly true that when we look at any actual state of Hegel's time - Austria or Prussia, say - the political structures we see are unimaginably libertarian by today's standards. And inasmuch as any policy proposals can be gleaned from Hegel's woolly Teutonic mysticisms, they are quite unremarkable. He is perfectly happy to have us worship the State as it is.

Hegel's totalitarianism is merely rhetorical. But the rhetorical acceptance of totalitarianism is the hard part. Once we swallow the proposition that "this final end has supreme right against the individual, whose supreme duty is to be a member of the state," the Cheka is a mere implementation detail.

That this thought comes from Popper, whose Open Society and Its Enemies is a cracking good read (volume 2 can be skipped), does not make it false. And it certainly does not make anyone, even Jonah Goldberg, mockworthy for expressing it. Goldberg is out of his intellectual depth in any debate with the likes of Larison, but that does not relieve the latter of the obligation to play fair - quite the contrary, in fact.

(Update: Larison responds.)


Anonymous Daniel Larison said...

It doesn't make it false that Popper cited it. It is Popper's reading of it, like yours, that is simply wrong. As I have already said in the comments at Eunomia, these statements do not mean what you take them to mean. The difference between a 19th century philosopher talking about the authority and right of the state and a totalitarian isn't simply the difference between rhetoric and implementation. It involves an entirely different concept of what the state is for.

July 7, 2007 at 11:49 AM  
Blogger Mencius Moldbug said...

It is exactly the difference between rhetoric and implementation.

Once you accept Hegel's logic, once your theory of the state is that its subjects exist for it and not vice versa, any policy that is necessary to preserve the State is necessary, period. The details of this argument tend to be easy to make, as they were for both the Jacobins and the Bolsheviks.

Or, for that matter, the Republicans. Forget Hegel and Hillary - try Hegel and Lincoln.

When you believe that the political system exists for the purpose of the individuals it governs, you can ask the question: do we need to kill a million people to preserve the Union? When you believe that the Union itself is divine, the "objectification of mind," and the individuals it rules exist only for its glory, you have lost the ability to make this complaint.

Hegel's philosophy is the essential active ingredient of totalitarianism. Any totalitarian state needs either Hegelianism or some functional equivalent. There are no historical examples of totalitarianism maintained entirely by force - state-worship is always a component.

Until Rousseau and Hegel (whose "state" is really best seen as a descendant of Rousseau's "general will," which itself proved quite serviceable as a totalitarian philosophy), this component, which I consider essentially Calvinist, was missing from Enlightenment thought.

That Hegel himself was not a secret policeman makes no difference. He was a philosopher, not a dictator. And it is his philosophy that created so much destruction.

I am not arguing, and I don't think Popper (or Goldberg) is arguing, that if Hegel had somehow taken an immortality pill and survived to the present day, he should be tried for the crimes of Hegelians. He did not order or incite these crimes, as Hitler did the Holocaust, and I'm sure he would not have approved of them. But to claim that the connection between his philosophy and how it was used is nonexistent or fanciful is simply going too far.

July 7, 2007 at 12:23 PM  
Anonymous Michael S. said...

The assertion that Hegel was a "moderately liberal constitutional monarchist" makes him sound like a mid-Victorian Whig. Will he stand this comparison? I don't think so.

It is worth while to remember that Prussia, along with Russia, the kingdom of Naples, etc., were regarded as despotic by the "moderately liberal constitutional monarchist" Britons of the time. Among other things, these states were reprehended for having uniformed police forces, which were understood to be domestic armies of occupation intended to subdue the populace by force of arms. Sir Robert Peel's introduction of uniformed police into England (called "bobbies" or "peelers" after him) was viewed with great suspicion at the time because such a force was reminiscent of states commonly thought to be tyrannous.

Though Hegel was not a totalitarian in the modern sense, his exaltation of the state - in a state widely reprehended amongst contemporary English-speaking peoples for its rigid authoritarianism - certainly would not have made him a "moderately liberal constitutional monarchist" by the standards of his own time.

July 7, 2007 at 1:13 PM  
Anonymous Daniel Larison said...

Funny you should mention Lincoln, since he was just the example I mentioned at Eunomia. Tyranny is not the same thing as totalitarianism. Lincoln could have an exalted idea of the state that led him to slaughter hundreds of thousands, but that is the mark of a tyrant, not a totalitarian. Totalitarianism is something very specific, and the way that it is being used in this debate is exceedingly sloppy.

To judge any European liberal by the standards of his contemporaries in Britain is to rig the game. If we use that standard, no Austrian or German liberal constitutional monarchist will ever be able to compete against a British liberal constitutional monarchist. By the standards of his own *place and time*, the description of Hegel is right and obviously so. If you take "moderately liberal constitutionalist monarchist" to mean something much more specific that will necessarily exclude Hegel, he will naturally not measure up. If British or American observers could not and cannot appreciate the difference between liberal reformers inside a rigid political system and the people magnifying and defending that system, that is their problem and not the problem of the German and Austrian liberals.

July 7, 2007 at 1:55 PM  
Blogger Mencius Moldbug said...


We are now arguing over definitions of words, which is surely useless. One can construct a distinction between tyranny and totalitarianism, but one can define any word in any way one likes. Surely most of those who say "totalitarian" today mean much the same thing our ancestors did when they said "tyrannical."

I am happy to admit that one can construct a historically valid definition of the phrase "moderately-liberal constitutional monarchist" that, in the context of Hegel's world, refers accurately to Hegel himself - as long as you will admit that what a reasonably well-educated reader in 2007 thinks when he hears this phrase, even in reference to the 19th century, even in reference to the Continent, is not a Hegelian but, as Michael says, a Whig.

July 7, 2007 at 2:15 PM  
Blogger chairmanK said...

I'm surprised that you claim that Prussia in Hegel's time was libertarian. Compared to the Bismarck era that followed, certainly yes. But do you really believe that Hegel lived more freely than we do in San Francisco today?

July 7, 2007 at 2:45 PM  
Anonymous Michael S. said...

Perhaps to judge Hegel by the standards of the British is too exclusive. How about those of (say) the France of Louis-Philippe? It seems to me we might call Guizot a "moderately liberal constitutional monarchist," but there isn't much more in common between Guizot and Hegel than there is between (say) Palmerston and Hegel.

If place in "place and time" as Daniel sees it means only Prussia, well, yes - I suppose Hegel was liberal by comparison to Frederick William II's reactionary ministers Wöllner and Bischoffswerder, or their like. That is simply refining the parameters until they yield the desired result.

July 7, 2007 at 2:50 PM  
Blogger Mencius Moldbug said...


Of course in many ways it was not. Liberty is a vast and complex thing.

But if you look at tax rates, number of civil servants per subject, regulatory burden, size of legal code, freedom of contract, freedom of education, etc, etc, etc... I admit that I have not researched any of these subjects, but I'm pretty sure Prussia would come out on top.

July 7, 2007 at 2:58 PM  
Anonymous Michael S. said...

An interesting point about Prussia is that until sometime into the 1870s, the approval of the monarch was needed for marriages involving any member of the nobility (a concept more widely defined on the continent, where it incorporated what the English would have called the gentry, than it was in England, where it was identical to the peerage). It was normally given as a matter of routine, but sometimes not. This sort of meddling might have been found in mediæval France, and persisted in England into the reign of Elizabeth I, but fell into desuetude tempore Jacobi primi. It is startling to find it anywhere in the third quarter of the nineteenth century!

Also, members of this class could be stricken from the rolls of the noblesse, deprived of the nobiliary particule "von," and of certain civil rights, at the pleasure of the monarch, simply because their behavior displeased him.

This minute degree of control over a segment of the populace was not, to my knowledge, exercised by the ruler in any other country, save perhaps Russia.

July 7, 2007 at 6:38 PM  
Blogger Mencius Moldbug said...

I didn't know that, but it is not utterly shocking. Something of a Germanic remnant. And didn't the Russian nobility also owe the Tsar essentially lifetime service?

These quirks of history, so useless for modern axe-sharpening, are always the best bits. (I am amazed by the number of historians these days who seem to study the past because they hate it - not at all unreminiscent of Nazi judeologists.)

July 7, 2007 at 7:04 PM  
Anonymous nick said...

Hegelianism was an exercise in intellectual hubris. I describe how such hubris, when applied to politics, is highly likely to lead to monsters and death.

July 9, 2007 at 3:33 PM  
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