Thursday, May 24, 2007 22 Comments

The Fnargland Grand Challenge

There are a number of unsolvable problems with Fnargocracy.

Unfortunately, none of them seem to have escaped the eagle-eyed eyes of my readers - who every day grow fewer, yet more zealous. (Seriously, I am blown away by the level of the discussion in the comments section. As an old Usenet warhorse, I suppose I'm just not in tune with this new, 21st-century Internet.)

So let's modify the problem so that, while still basically a magical thought-experiment, it at least has some practical relationship to the world we live in.

Suppose you and your girlfriend are sailing your yacht in the North Atlantic when you run aground on a new island, which is just now rising from the ocean. This island, Fnargland, while still dripping wet and entirely unarable, is quite large and curiously square - 300 miles on a side. At the population density of Manhattan, everyone on earth could move to Fnargland.

The two of you tie up your yacht on a crust of lava and go exploring. One of the first things you find, just sitting there on the rock, is a shiny golden ring. It seems to be your size, so you slip it on. "Look what I've found!" you exclaim to your girlfriend, and snap your fingers.

Of course, she instantly drops dead, which is how you know you have the Ring of Fnargl. Well, this is a bummer, but private islands are few and far between, and women are attracted to wealth and power. Grimly and sadly, you set about monetizing your new capital.

The Ring confers magic sovereignty. The bearer is invulnerable to all assault, and has the power of death against any and all comers, as long as they all on or over the territory of Fnargland and its coastal waters. Obviously, the ring and the island form a natural firm - either without the other is not worth much, but together they rock.

So you start up a startup, FnargCo, the Company of Ring and Island. FnargCo is initially private, incorporated in Delaware - it may move if needed. The idea is that the Ring is the company's property, stored in Switzerland and brought to Fnargland only as needed. Since all in Fnargland can be forced to obey it, all will obey it without being so forced.

Of course, in the start you are the majority shareholder and CEO of FnargCo, so there is no possible conflict of interest. Also, the UN, US and other large, dangerous external entities will be persuaded to recognize Fnargland, and treat it as a normal country for trading purposes, by the usual variety of payments and inducements.

Obviously, in order to produce revenue, FnargCo must welcome immigrants to Fnargland, create a legal system under which they live, and find a way to tax them. Ideally, we can make Fnargland such a desirable community that all except a few criminals and nature lovers flock there for the peace, prosperity and general good times that FnargCo is passionately committed to creating. The rest of the planet can be converted to a sort of large safari park, perhaps with the criminals filling the hunter-gatherer niche in the ecosystem.

Of course, perhaps this is not the way to maximize revenue. Perhaps we only want a few very special rich people. Or something else.

But you are the CEO. Fnargland is yours. After of course erecting a substantial obelisk for your sadly deceased girlfriend - "She Died For The Fnarg," it reads, in great obsidian letters - what is your next step? How do you attract immigrants, how do you keep them, and how do you tax them? Your goal, as always, is to maximize the value of the company's capital including distributions to shareholders.

I will post my own solution by and by. Please feel free to post on your own blog and link from the comments...


Anonymous nick said...

I don't have time to make much of a comment, except to note that this is a radically different scenario, since you profit from attracting people rather than from keeping them in.

I suspect you'd have a very hard time attracting visitors knowing that you have a Ring and you started by killing your girlfriend with it, but perhaps this is just an artifact of your particular scenario rather than of the general idea.

May 24, 2007 at 8:50 PM  
Blogger Mencius Moldbug said...

Well, over time, you need to both attract and retain them.

As usual I'll be interested to hear any thoughts you may have!

My girlfriend objected greatly to being "killed." But I reassured her many times that it was a tragic accident, and it seemed to help.

Of course, every government on Earth has a Ring. And most of them have some pretty dirty deeds in their past...

May 24, 2007 at 9:20 PM  
Blogger Daniel A. Nagy said...

I am not very good at being Fnarg, so I have no idea what I would do if I was the guy owning Fnargland.

However, if you did, I'd make you an offer. We'd meet in a café in Vienna, Austria (personally, I wouldn't go anywhere near Fnargland, especially with you knowing) to talk business.

Here's my proposal: I'd like to have a little server farm on Fnargland, connetcted to to the Internet by the means of a few satellite dishes (I don't want to depend on any single provider). I'd buy all the equipment (including the power plant) and pay the costs of transporting it to Fnargland and that of assembling it. I wouldn't do it myself, of course; you can either do it yourself (I'll hand you a CD with all the instructions in Vienna) or you can try to convince someone else to do it for you (somehow, I doubt you will find anyone else to do on-site assembly and maintenance).

I'd also have some insurance in case you decide to run away with my equipment (which, I know, you won't but then again, I don't know how the Ring of Fnarg affects your ethics).
Of course, if you somehow manage to connect Fnargland via some undersea fiber-optic cable to the rest of the 'net, I'd be willing pay a reasonable price for that connection, too (sat links are lagging, you know), but the dishes stay, nonetheless.

My equipment can, of course, be used for providing Internet service for those who brave settling on Fnargland (for a price payable to me) and I will be happy to host and even develop Fnargland's website (again, for a reasonable price), but please do keep in mind that I also have the Power of Death over my equipment (it will self-destruct if it is forced to do something without my consent; see Nick's proplets for more details).

In short, I am willing to do all sorts of business with Fnargland and its residents (until I get seriously defrauded), but I will never go anywhere near it myself. I am willing to risk some of my money but I am not willing to risk my life and freedom.

Name your price, Sir Fnarg.

May 25, 2007 at 1:42 AM  
Blogger Daniel A. Nagy said...

In the above comment you does not stand exclusively for Moldy; it stands for anyone willing to try on the Ring of Fnarg for size.

In fact, it is to demonstrate, that it is possible to have internet service arranged on Fnargland. Maybe some other services, too. So once you have all those, you can add them to the sales pitch attracting immigrants.

But don't count on me until you have at least half a million others living happily for five years or so and even then much depends on the actual arrangement on Fnargland.

To Nick:

I think, the obelisk (and the story behind it) is an essential element and an important signal. Keeping the fact that Fnargland comes with a Ring a secret changes many things.

To Moldy:

How about doing all the motions without actually killing your girlfriend? If I understand your goals, you do not intend to have anyone killed anyway, so in case you do not find any Ring on Fnargland you can just order a nice ring at any jewelery in Amsterdam, arrange a solemn funeral for your girlfriend (she may even attend it with a veil over her face, claiming to be her cousin) and have the above described obelisk just the same. How does that change the equation? What does she think about doing it that way?

Do not underestimate the importance of lies and bluffs (and other false signals and asymmetric information in general) in the world. Most governments on Earth have a Ring of my kind and the bluff occasionally gets called.

May 25, 2007 at 2:12 AM  
Anonymous George Weinberg said...

I have to agree with daniel about being unwilling to move to fnargland. There's a risk of being killed anywhere, of course, but I can't see voluntarily putting myself into a situation where somebody will have a permanent power to kill me where I'd have no power whatsoever to resist and there's be no chance whatsoever of anyone being able to avenge me.

Even if it's true that the master of fnargland would act in such a way as to maximize profits, prospective immigrants would not know this in advance. And even if he had acted in such a way in the past, how could one be sure he would so so in the future.

What happens when the master of fnargland is 90 years old, marries a hot young stripper, and leaves her everything (including the ring)? Maybe she'll put on lots of weight and go completely nuts!

May 25, 2007 at 10:09 AM  
Blogger Mencius Moldbug said...

George -

The master of Fnargland is not me, but FnargCo. I have sold out. You are dealing with a faceless corporation here.

Given that you almost certainly live in a country with an astounding variety of profoundly murderous weaponry, I'm not sure why the Ring of Fnargl is so frightening...

May 25, 2007 at 10:04 PM  
Blogger Mencius Moldbug said...

daniel - I'm afraid the death of the girlfriend was no more than awful black humor.

But there are horrendous, quite non-accidental murders in the pasts of all nations. Certainly including yours! What makes you feel safe there, and not in Fnargland?

That said - the server and the undersea cable would be quite an attractive way to start. Fnargland is not Sealand!

May 25, 2007 at 10:08 PM  
Blogger The Lock said...

OK. I took this to heart and gave it a try, despite the fact that I'm not even remotely in the same intellectual league as most in this corner of the blogosphere. Yet, I have a great deal of interest in figuring out what the next step might be--in the larger sense--for our society. And I find formalism, as you have described it, quite fascinating. I, like you Moldy, despise dishonesty (if that's what it could be called) and your ideas about Idealism closely correlate to my own observations over the last 20 or so years.

Well, I wrote this whole scenario about the Fnargl Llama thinking it would be best to embrace the Idealists at the get go. But, no matter how I thought it through, I ended up with the same thing. Does it matter how you start? You said, “…revenue-maximizing government is not a medieval atrocity from the past, but a permanent feature of human history whose rare exceptions are unstable and undesirable.” Is it perhaps not merely a “permanent feature” but actually an expression of (ever more) complex human systems? And is not formalism confounded by this very fact?

I sometimes wonder if what you are suggesting--both in content and in method--is reminiscent of a way of thinking that happens in certain "primitive" societies where one often finds extreme polysynthetic languages. In these languages a word is formed from any number of morphemes to create a single "word” that functions in many ways like an English sentence but can also carry a number of other important signifiers. This is because each component morpheme may have many subtle meanings according to shared experience, immediate context, and symbolic patterns of representation. But the “abstract concept” is built from the ground up, so to speak.

This is at the opposite end of the spectrum from an analytic language like English where we use a single word to represent abstract concepts. Furthermore, because our society is so diverse and complicated we lack the shared experience, context, and symbol patterns as well. The end result is abstract concepts so abstract we call them “ideas” which in turn can be “universal". Frankly, what doesn’t “freedom” mean? The point being, in contrast to polysynthetic languages, our concepts are not constructed they’re “imagined”, pulled out of the arse, as it were, and so we spend more time taking apart words and ideas than we do putting them together.

Even more interesting to me is that many of these societies are/were highly formalized. If I hunt and kill a large animal of some sort, each part of the catch is already considered the “property” of certain members of the clan according kinship patterns. Uncle Fred gets the liver, Cousin Sue gets the left leg, etc., because there is some pattern or association between each (usually elucidated and defined in stories—which is why I think that the narrative somehow fits into this whole discussion; it’s how we establish expectations). Furthermore, it’s not just food that is subject to these formalized relationships; just about everything from sex to rules governing who can be in whose hut with whom at what time are formalized. We would resist such formalization at all costs, it seems to me, because we love our Freedom! Ha!

So maybe there is an inverse relationship between formality and Idealism. Is this part of what you are saying? If this is so, then a huge barrier to formalization will be analytic language, because meanings have no "gold standard" so to speak, are not tied to mutuality in the way they were when formality was in vogue.

Would it help if I just started to call my taxes "rent" or if everyone just changed how they thought and spoke. Or does the formalization need to be written in law?

I hope this made some sense. But, I really enjoy (re)reading your blog, and have learned a great deal.

May 25, 2007 at 11:43 PM  
Anonymous nick said...

I'm fairly sure that Tolkien's solution is the only way to avoid tragedy. The best outcome would be for the U.S. give a thorough thermonuclear carpert-bombing to the island. If that was insufficient (or the Ring is already in Switzerland) NATO could capture the Ring with whatever force (or political pressure) was needed and use or develop the most secure possible bailment organization, possibly modelled after the organizations which have securely held our nuclear weapons. It would transport the Ring to Sea Launch, which would send it into a solar system escape trajectory.

If I foolishly decided to be Boromir and try to use the Ring for good, I would have to be fend the many other Boromirs of the world. Unless the Ring is sufficient to fend off the entire U.S. armed forces, this is probably a hopeless task.

And no government in fact has any such thing like this Ring. Even the totalitarian ones are far from it.

But I'll assume away such considerations, and assume I get some big line of credit without having to pawn the Ring as security, and give a stab at playing Boromir.

I'd give the Ring over, not to Switzerland, but to the custody of a College of Judges that again protects it with a security system similar to that for nuclear weapons in the U.S. (Since it's unrealistic that even I am purely altruistic, much less most other people :-), I'll give in a bit to self-interested power grabbing and make myself Chief Justice. :-) But unless the majority of the College so votes, I cannot obtain custody of the Ring, and even then they hold guns to my head (these might have to be offshore missile batteries) to make sure I only use it as the College has determined it should be used. Presumably people will realize this cuts the risk of the Ring down to where it is outweighed by the brilliance of my governmental scheme, and they will visit in throngs. :-)

The College of Extraordinary Judges (CEJ) elects its own successors, like the College of Cardinals. And if any kind of police force refuses to execute a court order, it would put them on trial and execute them for Contempt of Extraordinary Order, using its own Extraordinary Police Force, i.e. the Ring.

This neatly solves two of the problems that cause today's court systems to be overly influenced by other political forces: that they are chosen by other branches and that executive branches have the ultimate trump card in refusing to enforce court orders.

Beyond this, the Articles would dictate that all the jurisdictions and armed powers would be auctioned off to the highest bidder as franchises. There would, for example, be Army, Navy, and Air Forces franchises empowered to charge a reasonable fee to the entire island for their services. There would be some public nuisance suppression franchises: for example there could be an air pollution franchise, allowing the franchise owner to regulate all pollution on the island, similar to the EPA today. These franchises might be further unbundled into the particulates franchise, the sulfur dioxide franchise, the carbon dioxide franchise, etc. -- or alternatively the car tailpipe franchise, the electric plant emissions franchise, etc. These franchises would be allowed to auction off tradeable emission rights, or altenatively to charge emission fees. To the extent franchises are monopolies, or coercive, or both, the fees they can charge are limited to what are "reasonable" fees as determined by juries.

The Corporate Charter restricts the Extraordinary Court's jurisdiction to appeals in certain narrow (extraordinary) areas: choice of law and forum clauses, cases involving the property rights of franchises, and cases involving violations of a Bill of Rights, which would also be part of of the Articles.

All other jurisdictions are auctioned off to the highest bidder and can be freely traded. Among the Articles of Incorporation would be a strong requirement that Choice of Law and Choice of Forum clauses in contracts be enforced in a way much broader than current U.S. practice (e.g. allowing all torts of any kind between the two parties to be included in the scope of choice, overriding any franchise jurisdictions). This "out" would set competitive limits on many franchises, although extent we could go in this AC direction remains to be seen.

The biggest problem is how to stop the Extraordinary Court from cleverly interpreting the Articles of Incorporation to usurp jurisdictions that properly belong to the franchises. (The Delaware courts, not having any credible way to execute their judgments, would be powerless, even if the Corporation is nominally incorporated there). Or just from using its control of the Ring to blatantly violate the Articles and enforce martial law and slavery for its own grand benefit and everbody else's pauperization, once enough people have settled on the island with high exit costs. Such is why Tolkien's solution probably remains the best one.

Since we are hand-waving technology, it would be desirable to avoid such usurpation of Ordinary Jurisdiction by the Extraordinary Court, to the extent possible, by making the Articles self-enforcing digital code, perhaps based on proplets controlling use of the Ring.

May 26, 2007 at 12:11 PM  
Anonymous nick said...

Sorry, here's the proper link describing a choice of forum clause. And while we're at it, here's a description of a choice of law clause.

In the expanded form I propose, these will allow pairs of persons (individual or corporate) to opt out of the franchise that would otherwise have jurisdiction over future cases between them. This introduces a substantial degree of competition between franchises, and one might be able to assemble an AC-style system of insurance/protection companies from such clauses.

Beyond our Ring scenario, one might be able to do this even within today's governments, if their legislatures could be induced to pass statutes to expand the use of such clauses in this way -- i.e. for pairs of persons to opt out of governmental court jurisdictions in any future disputes they might have. Such expanded choice clauses would provide a startingly simple (albeit perhaps politically improbable) legal step to AC institutions. No constitutional amendments are required to go a long ways towards AC -- it's already latent in our legal system.

May 26, 2007 at 1:07 PM  
Anonymous nick said...

I just realized I changed the behavior of Mencius' Ring in an imporant way. For my gun-to-head scheme to work, I have to alter the invulnerability feature of the Ring as follows:

There are inferior Rings as in Tolkien's Middle Earth, but they behave a bit differently. If a majority of the Dwarves, Elves, and Humans who hold these rings (i.e. the College of Extraordinary Justices) touch their inferior Rings together, the One Ring's invulnerability feature is turned off. This is always done before the Chief Justice & Executioner is given custody of the Ring.

Even simpler: get rid of the guns and the One Ring and say that the Deathly Power of Fnargl can only be realized by a quorum of Justices touching their Rings and stating the unique name of individual to be executed for Extraordinary Contempt. Wearing one of these Rings makes one invulnerable, so our Justices cannot be threatened by goons.

Lacking a Mt. Doom, Mencius' One Ring definitely has to be nuked or launched out of the solar system. This may be true of my distributed Ring system as well.

May 26, 2007 at 1:29 PM  
Anonymous nick said...

Here is an updated version of my scheme.

May 26, 2007 at 5:39 PM  
Blogger Mencius Moldbug said...


Sorry, I got caught up in the debate on the next thread...

I'm not sure I completely understand your linguistic analysis, but I think I sort of do. And you're right - our concepts of "freedom" and "government" are very deeply ingrained. Possibly even at the level of evolutionary psychology.

I despair entirely of replacing others' versions of these ideas with my own. I cannot see how it could be done. This is why I just say what I think, rather than trying to convince people :-)

May 27, 2007 at 6:47 PM  
Blogger Mencius Moldbug said...


My reaction to Juritopia is in your queue...

May 27, 2007 at 7:14 PM  
Blogger Daniel A. Nagy said...

What makes me feel safer? Well, the fact that more than half a million humans have been living under similar conditions for more than five years and therefore I am able to manage the risks. Also, I know my government to be sufficiently slow and corrupt to allow me to throw the wrench into the gears of its killing machinery, should it threaten my life directly.

As I said, I might be willing to consider moving to Fnargland after having observed more than half a million people living there happily for more than five years. Problem is that I might not be the only one and that Fnargland Inc. might have a hard time finding 500 000 individuals who would take the risks.

I claim that advertising is no shortcut around tradition and experience. The minimum time for building lasting trust-based institutions is about the same as educating all the required people from early childhood (let's say, from the age of 6) to the point where they can fulfill their role in said institutions.

May 29, 2007 at 10:03 AM  
Anonymous nick said...

Daniel: "I claim that advertising is no shortcut around tradition and experience."

I emphatically second this. But I'd say the time needed is usually even longer than you suggest: often many generations to get most of the bugs out. (Think about how to debug inheritance law, for example). In reality we don't start from scratch on an island but with the political and legal systems we already have (or had, that worked in the past).

May 30, 2007 at 12:52 PM  
Anonymous senikal said...

i really enjoy your blog.

you seem to evaluate governmental/economic systems as if they were algorithms (with inputs and outputs).

i am guilty of yearning for a "linux-like" nationstate: simple. resource efficient. safe. transparent. (so i guess western europe is OSX and the US is Windows)

i don't like your premise here though.
seriously consider how a guy on a singapore-sized island in the atlantic with a 'death-ring of invulnerability' (but only while on the island) would be received by the US/Euro media and government. his claim or sovereignty would not seem legitimate, he would seem like a tyrant. he would be the closest thing to a real life james bond villain the world had ever seen.

assuming that you had a supernatural power of persuasion, but only with respect to your ownership of the island (a single jedi mind trick), what you did with the island would still depend heavily on the nature of your diplomatic relationships (personally, i could see cheney growing fond of the "death ring island" guy), and any natural resources your island has been endowed with. but the goal would most likely include a singapore/UAE style international finance hub with seductively lenient accounting rules and ultra-low taxes. the easiest way to achieve this would probably be by getting a loan, setting up a huge, high profile PR/lobbyist firm/PAC machine in DC. bribe, errr sorry, 'lobby' your way into some sweetheart deals for you and whatever american corporate mammoth you were trying to seduce.

the system of law outside of (the general absence of) corporate/business law would be unimportant. both singapore and the UAE have authoritarian tendencies, and strict morality laws (not an international banker's favorite environment). they also have thriving, loosely regulated financial markets. the netherlands couldn't be more different in it's moral tolerances, but has a similar banking scene.

i agree with the other people that question whether anyone would want to do business with an invincible partner who could kill them with the snap of his fingers.

June 28, 2007 at 6:16 AM  
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January 31, 2009 at 11:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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March 2, 2009 at 7:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

^^ nice blog!! thanks a lot! ^^

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March 2, 2009 at 7:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


March 6, 2009 at 9:47 PM  

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