Wednesday, November 7, 2012 134 Comments

Romney! He sucks!

Dear UR readers, I apologize for the hiatus.  While I have been busy, there's more to it than that.

For those of us who mock and despise democracy, an election year is a special challenge.   I am not a citizen of abstract timeless infinity.  I am an American of 2012.  Democracy is our religion.  The election is our communion.  Having conquered the world, we have made it our church.  From Nunavut to New Guinea and Uruguay to Uzbekistan, our glorious election is the news of the day, the week, the month, the year.  If I lived in a Catholic world, every Sunday a Mass, would I fart proudly at the missal to display my glorious atheistic contempt?  What a vain, void and petty gesture.

But fortunately, church is now out and I can say my piece.

Do I need to say my piece?  I just got home from an election-night party.  I've spent enough time saying my piece.  I was the only Obama supporter in the room.  And the most right-wing right-wing extremist. My throat hurts.

So I'll let one greater than me say his piece - which I've quoted before:
Cease to brag to me of America, and its model institutions and constitutions. To men in their sleep there is nothing granted in this world: nothing, or as good as nothing, to men that sit idly caucusing and ballot-boxing on the graves of their heroic ancestors, saying, "It is well, it is well!"
Corn and bacon are granted: not a very sublime boon, on such conditions; a boon moreover which, on such conditions, cannot last!--No: America too will have to strain its energies, in quite other fashion than this; to crack its sinews, and all but break its heart, as the rest of us have had to do, in thousand-fold wrestle with the Pythons and mud-demons, before it can become a habitation for the gods. 
America's battle is yet to fight; and we, sorrowful though nothing doubting, will wish her strength for it. New Spiritual Pythons, plenty of them; enormous Megatherions, as ugly as were ever born of mud, loom huge and hideous out of the twilight Future on America; and she will have her own agony, and her own victory, but on other terms than she is yet quite aware of.
"To men in their sleep there is nothing granted in this world."  Dear conservatives!  Eat the pain!  There are two kinds of Americans celebrating tonight - true believers, and right-wing extremists.  "America's battle is yet to fight."  Yes, dear conservatives.  A long time ago, Bismarck told you that God looks after fools, drunks, and the United States.  With God on your side, how can you lose?  But God, it turns out, is not to be taken for granted.  Possibly his mind has even changed!  And there's a lot of fools getting drunk tonight.  At least they are no longer sleeping.  Isn't pain better than sleep?

Do you want some Megatherions?  As ugly as were ever born of mud?  I know this clip is cliched.  I still can't get enough of it.  Romney!  He sucks!



Dear conservatives, what exactly are you going to do about this phenomenon?  "It is well, it is well!"  Some more corn?  A little bacon?  I have a plan.  Oh yes, I have a plan!  But you would have to ask me.  You'd have to want to hear it.  Why should I post it, when you don't want to hear it?

Actually, I am not such a cynical little bitch as you might think.  Had Romney exceeded the margin of fraud - had he scraped up another 2% of his liver-spotted "Greatest Generation" Americans to outcount the 110% turnout from "evybody in Cleveland" - I would have been partying with the rest of the room.  Who is immune to peer pressure?  But sick and scared, I assure you, at heart.

Because when Maistre says that every nation gets the government it deserves, I believe him.  Maistre didn't think his great law was a law of physics.  He thought it was a law of God.  I am not a religious person, but I agree.  History has convinced me that when laws of God are broken, bad shit happens.  Bad shit will happen anyway.  But isn't Obama bad enough?

Dear conservatives, I agree with you about Mitt Romney.  It seemed clear to me that Mitt Romney was a basically decent and capable individual.  Had America been what you thought it was, had the Presidency been what you thought it was, he would have been a perfectly fine man for the job.

But you cannot convince even yourself that America deserved Mitt Romney.  Can you?  Read your Maistre.  Louis XVI, too, was a basically decent and capable individual - believe it or not.  France could have thrived under him and his heirs to the present time.  Indeed France without the Revolution - any European nation without the Revolution - would be the greatest nation on earth today.  America not excepted.

Would France have deserved this triumph?  Maistre says no.  What she deserved was punishment, and God agreed.  At least, if we can equate God with reality - a point on which theists and atheists can, I hope, concur.  The reality is that France was scourged from end to end, and has not even come close to recovering.  Why?  As an atheist, I assert, it was a coincidence.  Impiety proceeded tragedy, sure, but might not piety have proceeded it as well?  As always, history proves nothing.

Dear conservatives, America's battle is yet to fight.  It may not be your battle.  But to hand it off to a basically decent and capable individual, a Mitt Romney, is to say: I see no battle.  I would rather sleep.  If there is a battle, God, I'm sure, will take care of it while I'm sleeping.  Surely, with our model institutions and constitutions, we cannot lose.  And if we do - it was a coincidence.

Dear conservatives, I have a question for you.  Suppose God appeared to you in your sleep, and gave you a choice.  You could lose your country, but keep your institutions and constitutions.  Or, you could lose your institutions and constitutions, but keep your country.  Which would you choose?

But I don't have to choose, you say!  Au contraire, mon frere!  I will save my country, by saving her institutions and constitutions!  Which are the best in history ever!  Look at all this corn and bacon!  Dear conservatives, this is just your way of cursing God.  Do you think he doesn't have enough fools and drunks to look after?

Do you know what terrifies me?  What terrifies me is that not only do I not think America deserves Mitt Romney, I don't even think America deserves Barack Obama.  After all, a couple of centuries of diligent looking-after has run us up quite a tab with God.  A tab that will be paid or punished.  What terrifies me is that while I see no collective interest in paying the tab, it doesn't seem to me that the punishment has even begun to begin.  Barack Obama isn't exactly Robespierre, you know.  "Capable" might be going too far, but "basically decent" isn't that much of a stretch.

What terrified me about Mitt Romney is that four years, eight years, of Romney would have been pure borrowed time.  There was not even the slightest intention to pay the tab.  Your intention, dear conservatives, was to sleep and be merry.  Your debt is already terrifying.  Fall on your knees, dear conservatives, and thank God from the bottom of your heart that you didn't put another decade on it.

134 Comments:

Anonymous coldequation said...

I'm not sure how to describe the link between impiety and punishment, but I don't think "coincidence" is adequate. France in the 18th century was basically a bunch of Jewish philosophes gnawing at the roots of society for decades, finally resulting in the Revolution. Delegitimizing the first and second estates was one act.

(OK, so they were native Frenchman, not Jews, but they acted just like something out of Kevin MacDonald.)

There's a book, available in the Sith Library, written by a Jesuit in the early nineteenth century which describes the links between the philosophes and the revolution well (he's sort of like a 19th Century Freda Utley).

November 7, 2012 at 1:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Would you oppose the formation of a society that excluded from its territory you and people like you in some sense, including possibly race and/or ethnicity?

November 7, 2012 at 1:26 AM  
Blogger Avery said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

November 7, 2012 at 1:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was the only Obama supporter in the room. And the most right-wing right-wing extremist.

How are you "right-wing"?

You're just a Jewish supremacist* who feels more threatened by disorderly blacks et al and democratic masses than by divine monarchs or corporations.

*Whether you actually are a Jewish supremacist depends on your answer to questions such as the one in the second comment in this thread.

November 7, 2012 at 1:38 AM  
Anonymous Ian said...

No, "right wing extremists" are not celebrating tonight. Tone-deaf post, probably inappropriate to the mood of the night for many of your readers. Also - I enjoyed your writing better back when it was less camp/arch/gay.

November 7, 2012 at 1:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Anonymous, you seem to be confused about how to remove people from a country. There are a lot of people in the world these days. Many people are in places they aren't supposed to be, including people who are actually breaking the law! But there are too many people to keep track of. As Mr. Moldbug says, it is foolish to rely on government anymore to maintain stable communities for us. People should see politics as epiphenomena, which it is, and stick to cultural survival.

It's pretty straightforward. The litmus test as to whether a creature should be treated as a human or as a mere force of nature is the simple question put to them by a human: “Would you oppose the formation of a society that excluded from its territory you and people like you in some sense, including possibly race and/or ethnicity?” Answer “No” means potentially human. Answer “Yes” means right to kill it.

November 7, 2012 at 1:47 AM  
Anonymous spandrell said...

Why is Moldbug trying to appeal to conservatives?

They wont come here. How many mainstream conservatives have converted to the alt-right?
They'd rather be born again and convert to Mormonism or some Traditionalist something, than embrace the Dark Enlightment.

November 7, 2012 at 2:37 AM  
Anonymous spandrell said...

oh and captchas suck.
Google sucks in general.

November 7, 2012 at 2:37 AM  
Anonymous TJIC said...

Mencious,

I first discovered your website about a year and a half ago and I am today, as I have been ever day since I came across your writings, deeply angry at you.

Why?

Because you express perfectly the things that I - normally fairly handy with language - have only expressed poorly.

The country is a car being driven towards a cliff. The ignition was cranked under FDR and the New Deal and the speed picked up a lot during the Great Society. A few times we've had presidents who have - no, not put it into neutral - but at least pressed the gas a little less hard.

This election was a choice between a man who intended to coast towards the guard rails, confident that a speed of 100mph would be sufficient to break us through the guardrails and throw us over the precipice and another man who didn't want to risk not having enough momentum and was instead flooring the old big block Chevy.

The good news is that the excitement - if you enjoy excitement - will come sooner rather than later.

The worst thing about this election is not that we got Obama.

The worst thing about this election is that it has revealed that we have the kind of electorate - no, not populace; we already knew that - we have the kind of ELECTORATE who wants Obama, even after they've seen who he is and what he intends to deliver.

We have chosen shame and we will get war.

November 7, 2012 at 4:58 AM  
Anonymous graaaaaagh said...

Until around ten years ago, I would've said that having either hundreds of tiny States or 5-10 big ones would do a lot for the stability of the country. Abolish universal suffrage, and it sounds about decent. But now - having just re-elected a non-Westerner to the highest post in the world's most powerful Western country - it's clear that the fractures are too deep, and the debt too high, for a peaceful reconciliation.

Perhaps - as you've suggested - a divine liquidation is in order. Or worse?

November 7, 2012 at 5:15 AM  
OpenID deconstructingleftism said...

No, worse is not better. If you aren't dead, you still have a chance to save yourself. The day of reckoning can't be avoided, but it can be delayed. And if it can be delayed, there is still some small chance of avoiding it.

Your plan can't be implemented short of total social chaos, which is to say widespread death and suffering. It's a leaky boat, all the pumps are going and the water level is rising. But it's still afloat, and no mariner abandons ship while it floats.

You have a nice job, Moldbug, and I work for the 0.1% so I think I can put food on the table and pay the rent for the foreseeable future. For the rest of society? Golden Dawn time is coming. Which isn't all bad, I guess, because I think Golden Dawn is really cool. You may not though.

November 7, 2012 at 5:53 AM  
Anonymous Sardonic_SOB said...

Actually, really right-wing extremists are celebrating. They want things to go to Hell sooner rather than later, and they think President Obama is a catalyst for that. The real right-wing extremists have no illusions that they can have any impact on the US or most of the rest of the world under its current governing institutions. The sooner we get Weimar time, the sooner we can have Krystallnacht and maybe a good old-fashioned Reichstag wiener roast.

While Moldbug refers to himself as a right-wing right-wing extremist, obviously he is not celebrating. I don't mean to lump him in with the general right-wing extremist population. His is a tiny splinter formation which consists mainly of himself holding up signs that say, "Pray, sir, I beg you consider that you may be mistaken."

November 7, 2012 at 6:15 AM  
Anonymous nydwracu said...

"But now - having just re-elected a non-Westerner to the highest post in the world's most powerful Western country - it's clear that the fractures are too deep, and the debt too high, for a peaceful reconciliation."

Obama is a non-Westerner in name only. In everything else, he's whiter than I am. Hell, I went to public school!

As for the reckoning, I can figure out nothing about it other than that it, like everything else in American politics, will occur at the furthest remove. There will be no skinhead mobs handing out food to the flash of cameras the world over. We won't see it when it begins; likely not until after it's over. Who knows?--perhaps it has already begun!

November 7, 2012 at 7:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Why is Moldbug trying to appeal to conservatives?"—I don't think this is really an appeal to conservatives. I'm a conservative, and this is not appealing to me. It doesn't even make any sense. MM is a better writer than that—if he was really trying to appeal to conservatives then it would make sense to conservatives.

November 7, 2012 at 10:00 AM  
Blogger Gabe Ruth said...

Oh, nony conservative, how did you end up here? You are not ready. The post makes perfect sense, and it is the truest and saddest commentary on current politics I have yet seen: Obama is far too good for this country, far better than it deserves. I am appalled by his abortion fanaticism (among many other things), but really, once a polity has accepted the practice in principle I don't see much point arguing about who's paying for the abomination. The Hyde amendment was just another sedative for the sleepers and it's no longer even being winked at is a victory for the Truth. There are many such sedatives, but I bring that one up because it was my last bit of common ground with conservatives.

Though I am glad of the bitter knowledge, the fruits of my Sith training, there are times when I wish I could see the world with my old eyes, just for a short time, for I, too, was a conservative a short time ago. I still love many that are, and in general I despise them not (though were I king, I would banish Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc.). But you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

"For you the world will continue to wear a noble, awful face. You will never rise above mysticism... But be happy in your own way."

November 7, 2012 at 11:32 AM  
Anonymous baduin said...

Any Conservative would benefit much by reading Lindsay's "'A Voyage to Arcturus".

He was one of the few people who understood the current political-philosophical situation, and his book shows that the error of the West lies in its beginning and is closely connected with the sources of its power.

A progressive wants to go forward to one of the realms of Arcturus, a conservative wants to stay in the current one, and the reactionary wants to return to the previous one. None of those solutions will help.

November 7, 2012 at 12:19 PM  
Blogger Debra said...

The tab started with the idea that America was a place for... SELF MADE MEN...
That kind of booted God out of the driver's seat now, didn't it ?
Let's not forget that the U.S. started out as a form of.. promised land, a new Jerusalem for European colonists, and that it remains so in the minds of too many people.
Yesterday one of my husband's patients wrote him a check, and looking for the date, mentioned that it was election day.
She comes from an African country and... we are in France...
Mitt Romney sucks ??
How about American colonization ??

November 7, 2012 at 12:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ah, Mr. Moldbug. I am a long-time reader, fancied myself a red-pill taker, and am precisely the person you are writing about. Guilty as charged. From mildly pro-Romney months ago to near-obsessed with the election these past few weeks. Unusually so. In fact, I could barely stand to listen to him in 2008. (That should have been a tip.) A consumer of wishful thinking about the polls, and upset enough last night to be unable to sleep. At all.

And why? Now I know. You called it exactly right. I wanted to go back to sleep. I didn't want to accept how deep the rabbit hole really goes. I think those of us with small children likely wanted to sleep most of all. Needed to. Not sure it will make a damn bit of difference, but the scales have fallen from my eyes.

November 7, 2012 at 3:30 PM  
Blogger Mitchell said...

baduin: You should develop that idea. Write "De Tocqueville among the Arcturans", or something.

November 7, 2012 at 3:40 PM  
Blogger ChevalierdeJohnstone said...

Those stupid, confused fools "standing athwart History yelling stop" as if History cared to listen - did not deserve to win and can not possibly govern. The liberals are despicable, vile frauds and have ceased to even pretend to be otherwise. 2008 proved half of America is too stupid and self-absorbed to even care that they are being obviously lied to; the lesson of 2012 is that they are willfully incapable of learning such a simple lesson. If Obama is a monster those who voted for him so that they can get their free condoms and abortions and phones are sub-human; those who voted for any other candidates are enablers. (I admit, I did so. I could not bring myself to give up. Years of brainwashing.)

U.S. society has committed suicide. This happened well before November 2012. What some commenters here do not seem to understand, but which Moldbug has made very clear and which reading Carlyle would elucidate, is that you cannot create a new, better, conservative society. This will never happen. This is the liberal fantasy which always fails. I happen to believe in God, unlike Moldbug, but that doesn't even matter. In fact atheism makes this argument even more clear.

The point is that a working civilization is an extremely, impossibly remote result. Statistically, failure is the norm. Barbaric animal stupidity is the natural state of mankind. It is by the slimmest of probabilities that any civilization manages to drag itself up out of the muck, and the entire history of civilizational tradition is the shaky structure on which civilized society is balanced. You cannot throw out that tradition and expect anything but barbarism to result. The only option is a restoration of those civilizational traditions which so many ancestors established by painful trial-and-error; not because these traditions are "good" or "right" but because against all possible odds they have been proven to work.

America, as a nation, is a wonderful thing, the inheritor of that magical tradition encompassing the successes of all our civilizational ancestors. The American government, however, is founded on the principle of rejection of all tradition, of any kind, and in fact is based on a constitutional revolution against all tradition. The American government is unreformably liberal and cannot possibly go any other way; as such, the American government deliberately prefers barbarism to civilization. This is its core design.

As Moldbug has so skillfully explained and illustrated, over and over in the pages of this blog, the only way for America, the nation, to realize the possibility of its civilizational heritage is to throw off the vampire leach of American government - not in a revolution but in a restoration of true, traditional, civilized government. "Cameralism", "Formalism" - these are blueprints on an underlying theme, which is simply that is is is and not is is not is and not is is not is and the only government that works is one which accepts this is as true.

The American populace, both liberals and conservatives, have proven repeatedly that they would rather suffer the depradations and degradations of the vampire leach and will gladly visit the same on their future progeny, rather than accept that not is is not is. The American populace, in fact, eagerly exports this sick, deluded fantasy to the rest of the world, gleefully crying out "This is the best of all possible worlds!" as the flames burn higher.

As a believer, I fear that America does indeed deserve God's judgment and because I know God is just, I weep for my nation.

November 7, 2012 at 4:29 PM  
Blogger TGGP said...

I'm rather indifferent over which one won. Obamacare vs Romneycare. I just hope we don't get unified government in 2014.

To the right-wing bolsheviks below: worse is not better. Worse is worse. The Nazis were neither good for Germany nor good for the "right", however you want to define it. The only reason they were a credible political force in the first place was the threat of communists taking over, which is the sort of thing that happens when things get worse.

Is there even a correlation between impiety and impending doom? There seems to be a lot of absurdity in Scandinavia, but they just keep on being Scandinavian and relatively pleasant. From a Catholic reactionary perspective, shouldn't it have been those heathen Protestant nations ravaged by revolution rather than France? The pious peasants of Spain were slaughtered as guerrillas during the Peninsular campaign while the Vampire of the Continent sat safe and protected by the English channel.

November 7, 2012 at 5:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

an underlying theme, which is simply that is is is and not is is not is and not is is not is

I'm pretty sure I know what you meant but, lol

November 7, 2012 at 5:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Nazis were neither good for Germany nor good for the "right", however you want to define it."

How do you figure that? Because they lost the war?

November 7, 2012 at 5:40 PM  
Blogger Gabe Ruth said...

I don't know if I'd offer a blanket recommendation, much less an endorsement of the overall vision. It is moving and challenging, and I'm pretty sure I missed alot.

The solution in the book, if I understand, is to recognize the nothingness of this world (and the evil of the Creator, but we'll leave that one on the side). Though I think it is a noble goal that I strive to implement in my own life, it doesn't present much of a political dimension.

I've been poking around looking for analysis of the book, without much success. If you'd be interested in discussing, e-mail me at gaberuth45 at symbol, google mail service.

November 7, 2012 at 7:30 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Would France have deserved this triumph? Maistre says no. What she deserved was punishment, and God agreed. At least, if we can equate God with reality - a point on which theists and atheists can, I hope, concur. The reality is that France was scourged from end to end, and has not even come close to recovering. Why? As an atheist, I assert, it was a coincidence. Impiety proceeded tragedy, sure, but might not piety have proceeded it as well? As always, history proves nothing.

I'm detecting subtle Catholic sympathies. If MM converts he may be swamped by accusations of being a papal agent. Shall I dare to dream of a revival of the Black Legend?

Louis XVI, too, was a basically decent and capable individual - believe it or not. France could have thrived under him and his heirs to the present time. Indeed France without the Revolution - any European nation without the Revolution - would be the greatest nation on earth today.

When Zhou Enlai was asked whether the French Revolution was good or bad he quipped it's too soon to say.

I think we can be more adventurous than Zhou and try to answer the question with more questions:

Are the French freer today than they were in 1780? Are their taxes lower today than 1780? Is the general quality of governance better today than 1780? Answers in the affirmative indicate they are better off. If not, not.

Would France have deserved this triumph? Maistre says no. What she deserved was punishment, and God agreed. At least, if we can equate God with reality - a point on which theists and atheists can, I hope, concur. The reality is that France was scourged from end to end, and has not even come close to recovering.

France briefly enjoyed a conservative restoration after Napoleon turned against the Jacobins in favor of the reactionaries and turned into Julius Caesar. But Mencius presumably would argue France didn't deserve a Caesar from 1804-1815, either.

November 7, 2012 at 8:41 PM  
Blogger Zimri said...

The Nazis were bad for the Right because the people they killed were mostly white people. Even antiSemites need to read "Bloodlands" and learn about all the Poles that the Nazis killed.

Mediaeval Poland-Lithuania, by the way, had an intellectual culture at least the equal of the forest-monkeys west of the Oder.

November 7, 2012 at 8:44 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Is there even a correlation between impiety and impending doom? There seems to be a lot of absurdity in Scandinavia, but they just keep on being Scandinavian and relatively pleasant.

How impious were they when the lost the Great Northern War to Russia?

November 7, 2012 at 8:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hadn't heard of the Obama Phone before. I'm traveling through SE Asia now. Even in backwaters like Burma, people who are living in huts and have virtually nothing have cell phones.

I prefer to think that all of Cleveland has "got Obamaphone," just as speaking French might be "having Francophone". This would explain how the lady knows that there is more than just cell phones coming down the pipeline.

November 8, 2012 at 12:03 AM  
Anonymous Ian said...

The Nazis were also bad for the Right because they made entire aspects of right-wing thought (nationalism, eugenics, firm anti-Communism, etc) equivalent in the popular mind to calls for genocide and to low-class thugs running a large first-world nation.

Moldbug has written eloquently about how not only did the Romanovs have class, restraint, and vision that the Bolsheviks lacked, but as did the Hohenzollern and Junkers over the Nazis.

November 8, 2012 at 12:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What terrified me about Mitt Romney is that four years, eight years, of Romney would have been pure borrowed time. There was not even the slightest intention to pay the tab. Your intention, dear conservatives, was to sleep and be merry. Your debt is already terrifying. Fall on your knees, dear conservatives, and thank God from the bottom of your heart that you didn't put another decade on it.

Depending on how old you are, trading 8 years of Mitt up front for another decade of "debt payment" on the back end could have been a good deal.

November 8, 2012 at 1:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Nazis were bad for the Right because the people they killed were mostly white people. Even antiSemites need to read "Bloodlands" and learn about all the Poles that the Nazis killed.

By this logic, the Nazis were good for the Right because they would have repopulated eastern Europe with more Germans hence more white people.

November 8, 2012 at 2:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Nazis were also bad for the Right because they made entire aspects of right-wing thought (nationalism, eugenics, firm anti-Communism, etc) equivalent in the popular mind to calls for genocide and to low-class thugs running a large first-world nation.

I'm not sure how the Nazis did this since they were dissolved in 1945. Were they time traveling into the future during the 30s and making Holocaust movies and funding the SPLC or something?

November 8, 2012 at 2:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

France briefly enjoyed a conservative restoration after Napoleon turned against the Jacobins in favor of the reactionaries and turned into Julius Caesar.

Napoleon wasn't "conservative". He emancipated the Jews and waged war against Europe to spread the revolution. He was like a proto-neocon.

November 8, 2012 at 2:39 AM  
Anonymous Ian said...

I'm not sure how the Nazis did this since they were dissolved in 1945. Were they time traveling into the future during the 30s and making Holocaust movies and funding the SPLC or something?

LOL good point. I was going to rebut that eugenics and white-nation nationalism had better mainstream reps before 1939 than they have since 1945. But I suppose it's true that, as you implicitly point out, Franz Boas was laying much of the groundwork towards discrediting eugenics even before 1939, and Trotsky and Rosa Luxemburg were doing the best the could against nationalism.

November 8, 2012 at 5:12 AM  
OpenID ThomasD said...

" There was not even the slightest intention to pay the tab. Your intention, dear conservatives, was to sleep and be merry."

You seem to confuse a dominant faction of the Republican party (country club/ruling class/entrenched elite/that sliver of Wall Street not enamored with Obama) with conservatives.

The can kickers are not conservative in the American sense of the term.

November 8, 2012 at 8:52 AM  
OpenID ThomasD said...

Let me just add that it was the people in the "swing" states - Ohio, Virginia, Florida - who changed this election. They either voted for Obama, or did not vote for Romney in the hopes of keeping their 'free stuff.'

Not conservatives.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/nov/8/ron-paul-election-shows-us-far-gone/

November 8, 2012 at 10:36 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

I'm not sure how the Nazis did this since they were dissolved in 1945.

You don't see how gentiles in bombed out London, Warsaw, Leningrad, and even Paris, might have gotten the impression Nazism was a not so good idea?

November 8, 2012 at 11:06 AM  
Blogger Famous J said...

Am I the only one who's missed Moldbug?

To respond to Spandrell, I started out as a libertarian who wondered why our side kept losing all the time and ended up wandering into the alt-right. I suspect Conservatives will start looking around for answers to that as well.

November 8, 2012 at 11:13 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

But I suppose it's true that, as you implicitly point out, Franz Boas was laying much of the groundwork towards discrediting eugenics even before 1939,

Despite propaganda to the contrary, Jews weren't the cause of the decline in eugenics. There were many Jewish supporters of the British Eugenics society, the most powerful eugenics society on earth. The BES even used the fact they counted many Jews as members as a way of differetiating their policies from those of pre-war Hitler.

And Boas was not an extreme blank slatist. He agreed it was likely that blacks were not capable of producing enough "men of high genius" as whites were. His point was that blacks could with enough social gospel be uplifted close to white middle class standards. Alhtough even this hope was too optimistic, Boas' belief in nurture was consistent with other WASP progressives and it was less radical blank slatist than the behavioral school of psychology.

and Trotsky and Rosa Luxemburg were doing the best the could against nationalism.

By the 1930s both Stalin and German Communist leader Ernst Thallman (who ran as the Communist candidate against Hitler) "Stalinized" ther parties, i.e., purged most Jews with gentile Communists.

Not that I expect an anti-Semite to blame gentiles for their history of corrupting Jewish intellectuals with liberal gentile ideology, which they have so wrongly accused of being Jewish in origin. But this blog is dedicated to giving an accurate explanation of Jewish political activity. As such it was necessary to offer the correct interpretation of Jewish activity on behalf of our undbiased host.

November 8, 2012 at 11:18 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Napoleon wasn't "conservative". He emancipated the Jews and waged war against Europe to spread the revolution. He was like a proto-neocon.

As usual, the anti-Semites are incorrect. By marrying the princess imperial of Austria and propagating Napoleon II, Bonaparte was in effect guaranteeing his empire away to the House of Hapsburg because Napoleon II would have imported an Austrian royal court after Napoleon 1.0 either retired or croaked.

Metternich, who was both in line to become foreign minister in a Napoleon II administration and who delayed Austria's entry into the war to defeat Napoleon after his failed invasion of Russia, listed Bonaparte as a counterrevolutionary*. Unless you are more informed of European politics than Metternich, which I doubt, then Napoleon qualifies as a conservative if Metternich lists him as an ally of the counter revolution and even correctly noted Napoleon was a far better reactionary than the reinstalled Bourbons.

From Metternich's memoirs:

* The French, who are gifted with much imagination, think the can understand the Revolution because they have endured it. This is just as if a woman who has had several children should say she perfectly understands confinements. Both forget that there are two entirely different things-the fact of enduring and the art of assisting. There was but one single man in France who understood how master the Revolution, and that man was Bonaparte. The King's Government inherited from him, not the Revolution, but the counter-Revolution, and they have not known known how to make use of this inheritance. I judge of the Revolution more truly than most men who have been in the midst of it. It is with me as with those who watch a battle from very high ground. It is only from thence that everything is seen: in the midst of the fray the eye cannot reach beyond a given circle, and that circle is always small. From the mistakes which the French Government have already made in Spain, no one can say what the end will be: if it turns out well (which is possible), then it will be the good bursting forth and triumphing of itself over everything in spite of both friends and foes. This is my view, and experience will confirm it. France is to-day like a vessel on a stormy sea guided by inexperienced pilots.

I expect to leave Vienna on September 16, stay four or five days at my house in the country, go to Czernowitz on October 3, and return to Vienna about Octover 25 or 26.

November 8, 2012 at 11:30 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

I'm not sure how to describe the link between impiety and punishment, but I don't think "coincidence" is adequate. France in the 18th century was basically a bunch of Jewish philosophes gnawing at the roots of society for decades, finally resulting in the Revolution. Delegitimizing the first and second estates was one act.

(OK, so they were native Frenchman, not Jews, but they acted just like something out of Kevin MacDonald.)


Yes, gentile liberals act exactly like Jewish liberals, have been responsible for corrupting Jewish ideology. And yes, gentile socialist revolution operates exactly like and preceded Jewish participation in socialist revolution.

Thank you for your summation of the Mencist explanation for Jewish liberalism.

November 8, 2012 at 11:37 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

“Would you oppose the formation of a society that excluded from its territory you and people like you in some sense, including possibly race and/or ethnicity?” Answer “No” means potentially human. Answer “Yes” means right to kill it.

Could the anti-Semites please exclude themselves from this blog. Your inability to discuss anything except Jews and the history of Europe beyond that mischievous Austrian corporal of yours (Yes, Napoleon was a conservative, Metternich says so and who/what are the anti-Semites to question Metternich) is limiting development of actual conservatism. There's quite a bit more to European history than Adolf and much more to Western politics than Jews.

It's unfortunate that you are so limited in vision. But neither I nor Mencius are expecting much from your type anyway. So be of good cheer and vamoose.

November 8, 2012 at 11:47 AM  
Blogger Debra said...

Hmm...
Just how conservative can Napoleon be when in the David progandist painting he snatches the crown from the Pope's hands, and sticks it on his own head ?
I call that... a self made man in the making.
Is a self made man a conservative in the sense that Moldbug (I think..) would use the word ?
I think... NOT.
France's extreme right political party, le Front National is currently pretty alone in its defense of national sovereignty in the face of.. European socialists on the left and right.
Yet many French people who have a vague... nostalgia for national sovereignty will never vote for a Front National candidate because of its associations with the Nazi episode, and the Algerian War.
And who said that eugenics have been discredited and/or abandoned ??
I see no evidence whatsoever in contemporary society on both sides of the Atlantic to support this.. belief ?

November 8, 2012 at 12:39 PM  
Anonymous nydwracu said...

"Cameralism", "Formalism" - these are blueprints on an underlying theme, which is simply that is is is and not is is not is and not is is not is and the only government that works is one which accepts this is as true.

Rephrased slightly to make it easier to parse in writing (and a bit longer and therefore, in this case, more memorable), this could work well as a one-sentence summary of reaction: Is is is and is not is is not and is is not is not and is not is not is and the only government that works is one which accepts this as true.

November 8, 2012 at 2:57 PM  
Blogger Sarah Waszmer said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

November 8, 2012 at 4:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

29"Is is is and is not is is not and is is not is not and is not is not is"

I do not understand this line, although I could possibly play it on a bass guitar.

Gilbert P.

November 8, 2012 at 6:22 PM  
Anonymous Heil Hizzle said...

I have heard the name Moldbug kicked around from blog to blog (John Derbyshire even recommended him). I came here tonight to see what all the hype is about. So now I'll speak my brief piece:

Moldbug, you are the deepest thinker on the reactionary/alternative right, or among the dark enlightenment or whatever the hell you want to call this philosophical bent. This was one hell of a post.

November 8, 2012 at 7:38 PM  
Anonymous nydwracu said...

Gilbertonymous: It parses better with quotation marks.

1. "Is" is "is".
2. "Is not" is "is not".
3. "Is" is not "is not".
4. "Is not" is not "is".

November 8, 2012 at 9:21 PM  
Blogger Zimri said...

Eugenics, we'll have to give to the Progressives, not to the Right. The Right would have supported a pro-life position; in the understanding that your extra kids were yours, and not the State's.

Eugenics was the Left trying to make people better. It was forced sterilisation of morons, black and white, on the hope that the intelligent would breed, black and white.

Agreed with TUJ that the JOO! JOO! in every comment is tiresome, and that Moldbug should swing that Tröllhamar - but what are you gonna do.

November 8, 2012 at 9:38 PM  
Blogger Debra said...

Aww, nyd, there you went and spoiled it...
Didn't you notice that without the quotation marks, people have to turn their neurons on, and there is some slight... risk of not being understood, whereas, without the quotation marks... you get my point.
Eugenics is way beyond an issue of left and right.
Eugenics... is synonymous with an, um.. Enlightenment legacy which pushes progress... I think that almost everybody on this blog can admit that "progressives" are not the only ones to believe in the power of progress these days.

November 9, 2012 at 1:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You don't see how gentiles in bombed out London, Warsaw, Leningrad, and even Paris, might have gotten the impression Nazism was a not so good idea?

And you don't see how Germans and eastern Europeans might have gotten the impression that communism and the UK and the US weren't good either?

Not that I expect an anti-Semite to blame gentiles for their history of corrupting Jewish intellectuals with liberal gentile ideology, which they have so wrongly accused of being Jewish in origin. But this blog is dedicated to giving an accurate explanation of Jewish political activity. As such it was necessary to offer the correct interpretation of Jewish activity on behalf of our undbiased host.

Both of you are Jews. As such, you're biased just as much as anti-Semites are.

November 9, 2012 at 1:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

By marrying the princess imperial of Austria and propagating Napoleon II, Bonaparte was in effect guaranteeing his empire away to the House of Hapsburg because Napoleon II would have imported an Austrian royal court after Napoleon 1.0 either retired or croaked.

You still can't get around the fact that he emancipated the Jews and waged war against Europe to spread the revolution. Sophistry like "master the Revolution" doesn't change that fact. He wasn't "conservative".

November 9, 2012 at 1:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could the anti-Semites please exclude themselves from this blog.

What is "anti-Semitic" about the following question: "Would you oppose the formation of a society that excluded from its territory you and people like you in some sense, including possibly race and/or ethnicity?"

November 9, 2012 at 1:43 AM  
Anonymous Ian said...

Despite propaganda to the contrary, Jews weren't the cause of the decline in eugenics ... and Boas was not an extreme blank slatist.

This article, written by a Jewish man for the "Institute for Jewish Policy Research", takes quite the opposite point of view :

http://racehist.blogspot.in/2009/05/grant-vs-boas.html

November 9, 2012 at 3:12 AM  
Anonymous josh said...

"Would you oppose the formation of a society that excluded from its territory you and people like you in some sense, including possibly race and/or ethnicity?"

Without any context, it is not anti-semitic.

I think the jews here are taking it to mean, would you oppose a society forming around you which planned on exiling you. I think just about anybody would oppose that, but perhaps people shouldn't be jumping ahead based on their own biases.

Nations appear to be natural sources of social cohesion and authority. A sane sovereign would generally nurture natural forms of authority as they make his job that much easier.

The problem is trying to get there from here. I think the people making the holocaust inferential leap are thinking about this step. I would think a sane sovereign (again generally, but not absolutely) would begin by accepting (generally) the settled order of political property rights in the territory. If your sovereign starts by completely breaking with tradition and reestablishing property rights based on a reductionist theory of history or justice, he is neither sane, nor a reactionary, but just another enlightenment lunatic. Govern sanely and conservatively and God will make the necessary adjustments. Of course, it should go without saying that a sane sovereign shouldn't tolerate subversives.

What ho, Debra! The first repeat female commenter in UR history? Aren't we supposed to give you awards for your bravery?

November 9, 2012 at 5:00 AM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

"Would you oppose the formation of a society that excluded from its territory you and people like you in some sense, including possibly race and/or ethnicity?"

First of all, it's impossible to take this question without the context of the Holocaust/Stalinization/Pograms/Jim Crow/etc.

Secondly, the proper answer to this question is: where is the society being formed, what are their criteria, and how are they going to expel undesireds?

If you're talking about a society as a free-association group, then they can do whatever they want.

If you're talking about a society as a group of people who grab a plot of land that undesireds own or reside upon well, that's another story altogether.

November 9, 2012 at 5:29 AM  
Blogger racketmensch said...

Does anyone know the Louis CK line*, in answering his kid's unending questions "Why?" From memory something like -
"Because nothing can't be, otherwise things that aren't wouldn't not exist. Shut up and eat your goddam fries!"
More Mencius! More War Nerd!

*It's not that I'm too lazy to try to find it, it's that I would likely have forgotten why I was looking for it in the first place.

November 9, 2012 at 8:37 AM  
Anonymous James said...

Dear conservatives, America's battle is yet to fight. It may not be your battle. But to hand it off to a basically decent and capable individual, a Mitt Romney, is to say: I see no battle. I would rather sleep. If there is a battle, God, I'm sure, will take care of it while I'm sleeping. Surely, with our model institutions and constitutions, we cannot lose. And if we do - it was a coincidence.

Firstly, please use — (Alt0151) instead of -. Hyphens are not dashes—and your writing is good enough for this to be an irritating solecism.

Secondly, the solution to the West's governance problem is for concerned parties to found an Institute for Sound Governance. This would mirror Yudkowsky's SIAI, Friendly AI theory being today's other neglected cause. Mencius should be one member; he should be joined by someone who understands game theory and disagrees with him (David Friedman?); and in addition to the thinkers, at least one pragmatic person who has read Management for Dummies (SIAI found out the hard way that the eggheads require supervision).

Of course, ideas are like arseholes. But I have discussed some objections to Moldbug's philosophy of government here. I think that institutions and constitutions are good, but ours are shot. Rather than whinging and moaning, it would be nice to see someone with 50 more IQ points than me design some new ones.

November 9, 2012 at 10:37 AM  
Blogger Udolpho.com said...

Good post. You should write more.

I'm encouraged by two things. One, Romney lost, meaning we can, as you put it, stop sleeping. Better to have stopped sleeping 10, 20, 30 years ago, but better now than in eight years when the situation will have exponentially worsened.

Two, the Republican Party is shocked. Stunned! Something has broken through the self-assured glibness of Republicans and conservatives. Their next move will probably be to panic, and the Democratic Party will exploit this to accelerate its (typically idiotic) plans. The Republican Party will, I predict, try to Cameron-ize. Perhaps a better analogy though is the retail chain JCPenney. The Republican Party will modernize, diversify, and gay friendly its way to oblivion, as voters stream out the door. Then they can be replaced with something appropriate to the current crisis.

November 9, 2012 at 10:56 AM  
Blogger Thomas Fink said...

Auster perplexed. Still don´t gets it and don´t publishes my comments since I sassed him.

Because it´s related here it is:

"13 million fewer (white) people voted in 2012 than in 2008." Auster

My dear Auster shill,

There are now so many conservatives, traditionalists, reactionaries or whatever you call them and some of them even read your blog who do not go for the lesser evil meme any more and are out of the reach of what you think are rational politics and will make you eat the pain with every election to come until you repent and when you have met your creator and all the childless single white woman who are so enthusiastic about Obama have gone that way too the Amish who do not vote anyway will take over.

This is the riddle of victory:

100*0.8 =80
40*0.8 =32
16*0.8 =12.8


4*4 =16
8*4 =32
16*4 =64


Today: 280 : 24
Tomorrow: 112 : 48
After tomorrow: 44,8: 96

Do you get it? (little help: It is secular milieu versus nonsecular milieu. "I will make you the father of nations." It works by the virtue of the loins not by the vice of elections)

https://twitter.com/thomasfinkus

November 9, 2012 at 11:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First of all, it's impossible to take this question without the context of the Holocaust/Stalinization/Pograms/Jim Crow/etc.

You're looking at it exactly backwards.

The first step to any sort of meaningful dialogue on this question is that all parties to any potential discussion agree that they don't "oppose the formation of a society that excluded from its territory you and people like you in some sense, including possibly race and/or ethnicity". If any party disagrees and does oppose, then no meaningful dialogue about it is possible. That's the context. Not emotive terms like "Holocaust" that are aimed at short circuiting thought about this. The whole point of such terms is for people who do indeed "oppose the formation of a society that excluded from its territory you and people like you in some sense, including possibly race and/or ethnicity" to suppress those who don't oppose and to suppress any dialogue or thought about this, and to impose their preference.

If there's no agreement on this, then you don't have dialogue. You just have people pretending to have dialogue while engaging in verbal manipulation to impose their preference - or just using outright force to impose their preference.

November 9, 2012 at 11:59 AM  
Blogger racketmensch said...

found it on myspace (didn't realize there still was a myspace)
why?
Because some things are and some things are not.
why?
Because things that are not can't be.
why?
Because, then nothing wouldn't be; you can't have nothing isn't! Everything is! There's no room for all that shit!
why?

November 9, 2012 at 12:39 PM  
Anonymous Obamaphobe said...

Moldbug! He sucks!

November 9, 2012 at 12:59 PM  
Anonymous Rollory said...


"First of all, it's impossible to take this question without the context of the Holocaust/Stalinization/Pograms/Jim Crow/etc."

Bullshit. I, as an individual of partly French descent, can take it in the context of a hypothetical future French racialist state that excludes all Muslims. Would I support their right to exclude me also, as I am not full-blooded French? Absolutely. If a small sacrifice like that on my part can help guarantee the existence and integrity and future of the French nation, I will make it. It will be painful, but I will make it.

The interesting thing about the question is how certain Jews automatically assume it MUST concern them and that it can't be generalized, and that it is OBVIOUSLY unacceptable, because they can't imagine a different mode of life than as a slightly separate minority living among a different people.

November 9, 2012 at 1:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Being a long-time admirer of M.M. (and, um, a Russian, a Socialist and some other unsavoury things), I have hoped that he wouldn't grace the disgusting farce with more of his enlightened musings! Yet he made an absolutely senseless post, and, um... sucks!

November 9, 2012 at 1:39 PM  
Blogger Debra said...

Well, Josh, if I cut off my left breast and shave my head, can I pretty please come play in your... boot camp ? sand box ? ;-)
Although I can thoroughly understand why... people who enjoy smoking cigars after dinner in the parlor might want some.. privacy ?

November 10, 2012 at 1:50 AM  
Anonymous baduin said...

Gabe Ruth

I have sent you an e-mail re Lindsay.

November 10, 2012 at 6:00 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

You still can't get around the fact that he emancipated the Jews and waged war against Europe to spread the revolution.

Your antagonism towards our (very) great emancipator's politics is not shared by Count Metternich, which means you are, as usual wrong.

When Napoleon married the Princess Imperial of Austria he was effectively signing the death warrant for most of the Jacobins. By welding his dynastic ambitions with the ancient House of Hapsburg-Lorraine Napoleon I was setting up Napoleon II to inherit not only the First French Empire (which was in its heyday a rather substantial SovCorp asset) but also import Austrian aristocrats and imperial administrators who would have helped mold his son into a proper sovereign executive officer. These sovereign administrators would have likely included Count Metternich among their numbers and would have been brought over to Paris where they could personally crush the Revolution as a political force.

In exchange for giving Napoleon an enduring royal dynasty and giving him access to Hapsburg governing officials (which Napoleon wanted badly because he had no one else to rely on to administrate France except himself), Francis II and the Hapsburg's would gain multiple advantages by putting the Austrian Emperor's grandson to be first in line to inherit the throne of France.

Among those advantages were: the Austrians would gain a major Continental ally in the form of a Napoleonic France's wealth, geopolitical power, and military strength. And, as was mentioned above and which was most important in the eyes of the great counterevolutionary, Metternich, the Hapsburgs would have been in an excellent position to suppress any further revolutionary uprisings when the Austrians had completed setting up shop in Paris.

If Napoleon 1.0 had spent 1812 getting more quality time with his numerous Polish mistresses instead of campaigning in Russia, there could still be a Hapsburg monarch ruling in France to this day.

Naturally, the Jacobins were not pleased with Napoleon's decision to weld his future to one of the oldest and greatest royal houses of Europe. His marriage to the Austrian princess proved the warnings of the Jacobins who warned early in Bonaparte's career that, whatever promises he made about believing in the Revolution, if Napoleon ever gained power he would turn into Louis XIV to the nth power. Which is exactly what happened.

And please be sure to printout this image and frame it in your living room. I'm sure you'll enjoy gazing upon it:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Napoleon_stellt_den_israelitsichen_Kult_wieder_her%2C_30._Mai_1806.jpg

November 10, 2012 at 8:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your antagonism towards our (very) great emancipator's politics is not shared by Count Metternich, which means you are, as usual wrong.

You're making an appeal to authority, not to the facts. This isn't Talmudic disputation.

Napoleon wasn't conservative. He called himself a "son of the Revolution" and viewed himself as practically implementing the ideals of the Revolution. And he did so by establishing egalitarian measures such as the Napoleonic Code, and by spreading French revolutionary principles through war and empire.

Napoleon tried to destroy the old order in the core of his empire and its dependent states. The nobility and clergy in those areas lost their special privileges. Napoleon decreed equality of opportunity and meritocratic measures, equality before the law, etc.

From Napoleon's letter to his brother Jerome in 1807:

http://books.google.com/books?id=JiE3GbPcJcwC&lpg=PP1&pg=PT413#v=onepage&q&f=false

"What German opinion impatiently demands is that men without hereditary rank, but of marked ability, shall have an equal claim upon your favor and employment, and that every trace of serfdom, or of a feudal hierarchy between the sovereign and the lowest class of your subjects, shall be done away with. The benefits of the Code Napoleon, public trial, and the introduction of juries, will be the leading features of your government. ... For the extension and consolidation of your reign I count more upon the effects of these measures than upon the most resounding victories. I want your subjects to enjoy a degree of liberty, equality, and prosperity hitherto unknown to the German people."

November 11, 2012 at 1:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nydwracu, thank you. It's all in the phrasing.

Gilbert P.

November 11, 2012 at 2:06 AM  
OpenID scottlocklin said...

Speisekammer! Last week!

This is fundamentally ridiculous. Obama and Romney, while they have very different characters, are indistinguishable as executives. A little less spending here. A little more war there. Who cares?

November 11, 2012 at 2:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Undiscovered Jew,

Would you oppose the formation of a society that excluded from its territory you and people like you in some sense, including possibly race and/or ethnicity?

November 11, 2012 at 3:18 PM  
Blogger Son of Brock Landers said...

I used to doubt the public's acceptance of stripping universities of the humanities or non-STEM courses when reading Moldbug, but I've come around and believe either the Amerikaners, if they seceded, or America itself would agree because of college being turned into a jobs machine, wealth transferance racket. Give this 5-7 more years and the masses will gleefully destroy the liberal arts university system or strip it of any influence.

November 11, 2012 at 5:02 PM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

SBL:

Non-STEM courses are dead and dying. Khan, indeed, may kill everything but look to Florida and Antioch and MOOC for the death throes.

Anon:

Then you should phrase it: in order to have a discussion re groups you must first agree that XYZ, etc. in order to short-circuit monkey thinking.

November 11, 2012 at 7:12 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

From Napoleon's letter to his brother Jerome in 1807:

His marriage to the Austrian princess occurred after 1807. Prior to becoming Emperor, Napoleon was in league with the Jacobins and, by all accounts, a believer in revolutionary violence. However, as he became accustomed to absolute power he gradually warmed to the conservative dynasties of Europe, which was exactly what the revolutionaries feared. He even struck up a friendship with arch-counterrevolutionary Metternich.

The culmination of his betrayal of the revolution was finalized with his fusing the House of Bonaparte with the House of Hapsburg-Lorraine, as discussed.

You're making an appeal to authority, not to the facts. This isn't Talmudic disputation.

Napoleon wasn't conservative.


I've given you the facts regarding why Napoleon became a conservative and I've given you the opinion of Metternich who himself called Bonaparte's legacy one of counter-revolution:

The King's Government inherited from him, not the Revolution, but the counter-Revolution, and they have not known known how to make use of this inheritance.

Why would Metternich count Bonaparte as a counterrevolutionary unless he was a conservative?

What reason should others have that you possess a better understanding of 19th century European politics than Metternich who was amongst the greatest reactionaries of the 18th and 19th centuries?

November 11, 2012 at 7:56 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

The interesting thing about the question is how certain Jews automatically assume it MUST concern them and that it can't be generalized,

Again giving yourself intellectual street cred you've done nothing to deserve.

The reason we assume it involves us because we have seen this same question repeated ad nauseum for years. Every time it is asked it always leads to the questioner following up with demanding Jews be excluded from the great mighty Jew destroying ethnostate you're building in your mother's basement.

That was going to be your followup, wasn't it?

We've seen the anti-Semites ask this question year after year after year and we know exactly where the rest of the talking points go.

What's amusing about you is that you think, in spite of repeating the exact same question year in and year that we are supposed to be surprised by your followup.

If we Mischlings and Jews generalize about anti-Semites then we do so successfully only because the anti-Semites are so predictable.

To answer your question about small exclusive communities, you are free to form any puny, inbred militia colony in the woods and exclude Jews if you wish, but on the condition you never have computer access again.

November 11, 2012 at 8:10 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Just how conservative can Napoleon be when in the David progandist painting he snatches the crown from the Pope's hands, and sticks it on his own head ?
I call that... a self made man in the making.


Debra, by marrying the Austrian Emperor's daughter he gave a guarantee to the reactionaries that his Empire would be inherited by a Hapsburg Dauphin.

See explanation above.

Note also that Count Metternich - who was not at all impressed with the restored Bourbons - counted Bonaparte as a better counter revolutionary than the newly reinstalled (but soon to be overthrown) French aristocracy.

November 11, 2012 at 8:18 PM  
Anonymous avantguard said...

You'll never be right enough! You are just a paleo-conservatie. I am a paleo-paleo and I'm calling you out for being a total liberal. Increase your doom settings.

Thank You,
The Conservative Movement

November 11, 2012 at 9:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What reason should others have that you possess a better understanding of 19th century European politics than Metternich who was amongst the greatest reactionaries of the 18th and 19th centuries?

This isn't Talmudic disputation where you appeal to rabbinical authorities.

Only the facts matter, and the facts here are that Napoleon was a liberalizing force within France and outside of it.

November 12, 2012 at 1:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Napoleon even decriminalized homosexuality and incest in France and areas outside of it.

November 12, 2012 at 1:52 AM  
Blogger Debra said...

I read your explanation above, with the Metternich quote, Undiscovered Jew...
Perhaps you might care to grant me.. a teeny weeny itsy bit of ... authority on this question, on the grounds that I have lived on French soil for the past 33 years, and am a fervent.. observer (no, not admirer) of French society ?
I do not think that you can discount the David painting, and what it says about Napoleon's attitude towards hierarchical authority, incarnated in the Pope. That gesture is an attack on such.. invested authority.
Questions... you can make a case for the idea that every five years now... the French people... elect a king.
On election night, I heard François Hollande reverentially repeat the word "service" at least five times. You know, I took out my etymological dictionary and checked out "service" and it goes right back to the... feudal ideal of service.
So.. François Hollande, on election night pledged to.. SERVE the Republic... (Sometimes I tremble for François and his impossible.. mission of serving the Republic all the while sawing away systematically at the branch upon which the Republic is sitting.)
I said when Obama 1 was taking place that the American people had given up on democracy, and were now... electing a king.
What's the difference between electing a king and electing a president ? (The Pope is elected too...)
There is a certain paradox in the idea that Napoleon, who spread what I call the. ANTHILL mentality was concerned about how to transmit power.
The paradox stems from the problem that governance based on... fraternity (remember Cain and Abel, now) ultimately destroys authority, tradition, and thus renders transmission of power (not to mention knowledge...) very... problematic.
I believe that democratic egalitarianism is based on the anthill mentality.
All of us.. equal (translate.. the same), undifferentiated.. passengers wearing boots in public transport in the best of all possible.. SOCIEties.
The ants have now linked up all over Europe, according to observations.
Their.. globalization mirrors our own.
That makes me feel.. humble in my inevitable, Cartesian moments of hubris..
Ugh...

November 12, 2012 at 2:02 AM  
OpenID candide3 said...

> To answer your question about small exclusive communities, you are free to form any puny, inbred militia colony in the woods and exclude Jews if you wish, but on the condition you never have computer access again.

Why, thank you so much, good sir! Would you kindly condescend at least to allow us to buy booze in your taverns, mete out our tasks on the manor and accept our paltry fees for christening our children in the church you manage for the local landholder?

It is really ridiculous that Jews should simultaneously insist on being a slightly (?) separate minority living among a different people and on the said different people accepting them on their own terms without qualification. But human nature being what it is, this attitude is quite understandable, and it is perhaps historically inevitable that they (as Rollery mentioned above) automatically consider that it MUST concern them. Sigh.

November 12, 2012 at 7:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To answer your question about small exclusive communities, you are free to form any puny, inbred militia colony in the woods and exclude Jews if you wish, but on the condition you never have computer access again.

You didn't answer the question.

The question wasn't whether or not you opposed it with certain conditions.

November 12, 2012 at 10:35 AM  
Anonymous antonym said...

I'm a Jew and I'll answer that. I'd oppose such a society if it was forming where I currently lived. In any other case, not at all. Really, why would I want to live among people that went to great lengths to keep me away?

November 12, 2012 at 9:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Changing the subject, can anyone recommend a good history of the GOP?

November 14, 2012 at 8:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seasteading, Soviet style!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/exploring-the-crumbling-soviet-oil-platform-city-of-neft-dashlari-a-867055.html

"PrintE-MailFeedback11/14/2012 14.11.2012
Forbidden City of Oil Platforms
The Rise and Fall of Stalin's Atlantis
By Arno Frank

"In the 1950s, Soviet engineers built a massive city in the Caspian Sea off the coast of Azerbaijan. It was a network of oil platforms linked by hundreds of kilometers of roads and housing 5,000 workers, with a cinema, a park and apartment blocks."

November 14, 2012 at 9:29 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Perhaps you might care to grant me.. a teeny weeny itsy bit of ... authority on this question, on the grounds that I have lived on French soil for the past 33 years, and am a fervent.. observer (no, not admirer) of French society ?
I do not think that you can discount the David painting, and what it says about Napoleon's attitude towards hierarchical authority, incarnated in the Pope. That gesture is an attack on such.. invested authority.


The invested of authority in France, i.e, the Bourbons, had been guillotined before Napoleon's coronation. Napoleon's seizure of power is more akin to Pinochet's coup against Allende.

Furthermore, the Pope was willing to go along with Napoleon because of the Concordat of 1801 which restored much of the ancient privileges of the Church and ended the violent atheism of Revolutionary France. By 1801 it was clear that Napoleon would be much more amenable to Europe's royalist powers and Christianity than any Jacobin, most of which were as dedicated to violent overthrow of European sovereigns and and aristocracy as were the future revolutionary socialists.

November 15, 2012 at 9:37 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

The question wasn't whether or not you opposed it with certain conditions.

I agree you may form a community excluding Jews. Satisfied?

November 15, 2012 at 9:39 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Would you kindly condescend at least to allow us to buy booze in your taverns, mete out our tasks on the manor and accept our paltry fees for christening our children in the church you manage for the local landholder?

I think we're not condescending enough towards you because you are too stupid to read and keep spamming Zionist outfits such as this one.

If you had bothered to read what I wrote, I said you could form a Jew free community. You may even exlude Jews from you taverns.

November 15, 2012 at 9:42 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Napoleon even decriminalized homosexuality and incest in France and areas outside of it.

And prostitution. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

November 15, 2012 at 9:43 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

This isn't Talmudic disputation where you appeal to rabbinical authorities.

Since when is a Catholic Austrian aristocrat a Talmudic authority?

November 15, 2012 at 9:47 AM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

TUJ:

You know he means that you're appealing to prior knowledge of experts--though why he would think that's unwelcome at UR I've no idea.

November 15, 2012 at 9:51 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

You know he means that you're appealing to prior knowledge of experts-

Well duh, but making constant reference to "Talmudic disputation" suggests he was particularly implying Metternich is a rabbinical authority, an allegation which I'm sure would have come as news to Metternich.

-though why he would think that's unwelcome at UR I've no idea.

To think this is coming from someone who likely takes JewWatch as Gospel.

November 17, 2012 at 8:00 PM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

JewWatch

Is that some kind of Hebraic Chatroulette?

November 17, 2012 at 9:29 PM  
Anonymous Multiheaded said...

Off-Topic:

Dear Mencius, I believe I just pwned your Patchwork proposal in its fundamental assumptions. http://lesswrong.com/lw/fh4/why_is_mencius_moldbug_so_popular_on_less_wrong/7unc - please explain in Bayesian terms where this attack is wrong.

Respectfully, your long-time fan.

- Multiheaded.

November 18, 2012 at 12:40 AM  
Anonymous Lawful Neutral said...

> he was particularly implying Metternich is a rabbinical authority

Sure. I suppose if I call someone a "pundit," that means I think he's an expert in the Sanskrit language and Vedic scriptures? Get real.

He sounds anti-Semitic, right? We got it. Deliberately misunderstanding him is not scoring you any points.

November 18, 2012 at 9:20 AM  
Blogger Thomas Fink said...

"America is our nation, the land where our fathers died. But America has become the homeland and headquarters of institutionalized liberalism, a liberalism that wickedly defies God and seeks to destroy Christianity, the dignity of white people, and our traditional way of life. And America aggressively seeks to export liberalism all around the world. What therefore should be our relationship with America?" Alan Roebuck

"Statements such as this are typical of virtually all American `conservatives´. Where ever you read them you can be sure that these statements almost always boil down to an ascent 18th and 19th century liberalism all under the guise of some argument in favor of `traditionalism´. This really gets to core of the problem and why movement conservatism is such an abject failure." Prinz Eugen
see: http://orthosphere.org/2012/11/18/what-must-we-do/

Prinz Eugen gets it. The American Revolution was the childbed of what is called today liberalism. The USA was not founded by "The People". The people were high degree masons. They founded America and they still rule it. All contemporary tenets of high degree masonry like birth control including abortion, euthanasia, gender-mainstreaming, anti-religion (for the outsiders) etc. are also the tenets of liberalism. Most people today are illiterates regarding the language of symbols. Otherwise they would recognize the occult symbolic embedded in the architecture of cities, streets and buildings in America (and it is not a christian symbolic).BTW Auster wrote recently about the Democrats being an criminal enterprise (in the context of voting fraud). He should wait 4 years. In America a criminal enterprise is usually succeeded by a bigger and more ruthless criminal enterprise. Jeb is coming. It will be Bush time again. Romney was designed to loose.

November 19, 2012 at 3:21 AM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

That wasn't a pwning.

That wasn't even a bprrowing.

Neocameralism/patchwork/etc works if and only if there is the ability for folks to leave their places of residence.

MM even said that if a country went all North Korea that it would suck for THOSE people but make it all the more difficult for other dictators to do so as the other nations would (likely) refuse to trade with them and no one would go there (note: Juche really really doesn't work and in NC/P/&c there is exactly no incentive for China/USSR to prop up the Kims).

Like anything "libertarian," the argument is not "magically bad things won't happen" but the good produced by relaxing the laws outweighs the inevitable bad income or two.

November 19, 2012 at 6:10 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Sure. I suppose if I call someone a "pundit," that means I think he's an expert in the Sanskrit language and Vedic scriptures? Get real.

Considering anti-Semites frequently confuse non-Jews like Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt with Jews it's a legitimate question whether he was calling Metternich a "Talmudic" source because he merely using hyperbole or if he thought Metternich actually has some sort of connection to rabbinical scholarship.

Are you sure he knew Metternich has no connection to Judaism?

November 19, 2012 at 6:11 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

The American Revolution was the childbed of what is called today liberalism. The USA was not founded by "The People". The people were high degree masons. They founded America and they still rule it.

Yes. Washington was decked out in full Mason regalia when he took the oath of office.

The US government was setup to be run by wealthy businessmen. The founders originally envisioned giving voting rights to only a small subset of white landowners. Of course, by the time of Andrew Jackson, the franchise had been expanded to most white men regardless of property ownership.

The political parties which everyone gets so emotionally invested in are simply dummy terminals which serve the interests of elite shareholders. The strength of the parties merely reflects the strength of the elite interests that run the parties.

From 1865-1932, the US was dominated by conservative Northern Hamiltonian business interests via Lincoln's Republican party after the Hamiltonians rightly crushed the militarily aggressive Southern plantation holders.

The reason the US government has gone off the rails since 1932 is because capitalist interests have been losing power to the FDR Cathedral bureaucracy. The Cathedral is waging war on the private sector because the Cathedral wants to replace private business activity with unaccountable bureaucracy.

The reason the Republicans don't make any headway against the Cathedral is because the Cathedral apparatchiks are concentrated in agencies such as universities and think tanks where they can't be held accountable for their disastrous policy decisions.

The way to defeat the Cathedral is to defund the organizations that employ the progressives.

If the Cathedral were defunded, the private sector would naturally become dominant over American government once more and the Democrats, who merely represent the Cathedral's interests, would revert back to the treasonous and criminal outer party they were when the Hamiltonians ruled America from 1865-1932.

November 19, 2012 at 6:30 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Is that some kind of Hebraic Chatroulette?

In a way, yes.

November 19, 2012 at 6:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The way to defeat the Cathedral is to defund the organizations that employ the progressives.

So how do you do that when the Cathedral has the ability coercivsly to transfer wealth from non-progressives to progressives?

November 19, 2012 at 6:37 AM  
Anonymous Multiheaded said...

@Palmer

>the other nations would (likely) refuse to trade with them

As I claim in the LW thread, people would only refuse to trade with slave-labor patches if Universalist morality (which IS a virus, and I am one of its hosts) keeps growing and growing without restriction. Otherwise, why would you be concerned by some, say, 100 million slaves being exploited and bred far away, by a ruthless yet trustworthy owner that promises not to treat you like them if you were to visit?!

But if Moldbug would support the growth of Universalist morality to ensure that patches lean towards benevolence or suffer international scorn... wouldn't that make Moldbug a Reformed Universalist of some kind?

And if people WOULDN'T refuse to trade with slave patches, then those can be sustained indefinitely with crypto-weaponry, quite isolated and quite hellish.

Please read a related story:
http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-231

November 19, 2012 at 7:57 AM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

Multi:

MM (to my knowledge) doesn't deny that a Korean backwater couldn't happen.

His argument is that if every nation in the world is a patchworked one then

1) there is little financial incentive to go full-Kim

2) full-Kim won't be the norm

3) it will suck for those people if it happens but not for the majority of humanity who will be better off.

Perhaps that's not trans-humanist but it is utilitarian, which MM claims to be.

November 19, 2012 at 9:15 AM  
Blogger Thomas Fink said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

November 19, 2012 at 10:58 AM  
Blogger Thomas Fink said...

"The way to defeat the Cathedral is to defund the organizations that employ the progressives."

The Cathedral is just left wing masonry. And organizations that employ the progressives are also funded by capitalist interests. Like many foundations as for instance the Rockefeller Foundation which was among other projects funding Kinsey and his Report to get the sexual revolution rolling. And so on and so on. It is like Kerry (Kohn) versus Bush and at the same time being brothers in their Skull and Bones Yale lodge.
When the right-wing Freemason is finished, the left wing Freemason takes over. And vice versa.

November 19, 2012 at 11:00 AM  
Anonymous Multiheaded said...

@Palmer

>3) it will suck for those people if it happens but not for the majority of humanity who will be better off.

It also sucks for the SCP-231-7 girl, but the majority of humanity is also "better off". And please note that, like in the SCP story, the ever-contuning torment in a hypothetical Hell-Patch will be more or less impossible to end by intervention - given that absolute crypto-security as proposed by MM is achievable.

I am not an utilitarian (although I *might* be a consequentialist - or not), and I don't think to tolerate a world like that merely because the sum total of human happiness will be greater there.

I also recognize that our patchwork-less world allows similarly infernal things to happen. This is why I believe that human evil needs some kind of a transhumanist solution, possibly a radical one - and without it, all the clever feats of instituional design will just keep morphing evil and shuffling it around.

Yes, I am aware that I am quite insane.

November 19, 2012 at 3:11 PM  
Anonymous Multiheaded said...

P.S. I know that the "strong dissonance between utilitarianism and moral intuition" hook of the SCP-231 story is far from original, and is more famously exploited in the Ursula K. Le Guin short story "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" (which actually *is* about an "utopia at a price" society) - but it seemed to me that SCP-231 would go over better with the types likely to read UR/reactosphere, because of Le Guin's general "bleeding-heart hippie matriarch" image being likely to trigger resentment.

November 20, 2012 at 2:38 AM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

This is why I believe that human evil needs some kind of a transhumanist solution, possibly a radical one - and without it, all the clever feats of instituional design will just keep morphing evil and shuffling it around.

Eesh.

Work with humans, not against them. Transhumanism (especially as described by EY) is generally pie in the sky and doesn't address human behavior enough to be meaningful. Just making someone live longer or be smarter's not going to fix anything.

November 20, 2012 at 8:27 AM  
Anonymous Multiheaded said...

@Palmer

>"Just making someone live longer or be smarter's not going to fix anything."

W... wh.. wh.. wh.. WHAT?!?! What makes you THINK that? You really haven't paid attention to the base premises set forth by transhumanism before trying to refute it as an ideology, haven't you?

Do you know, can you imagine, what you would act and think like if you knew your natural lifespan is going to be ~500 years? Do you know, can you imagine, what you would act and think like if your IQ was 175? I don't know, and I find it enormously hard to imagine in plausible/meaningful detail.

I know that if I was an early H. Sapiens Sapiens so unusually intelligent as to understand the question, I wouldn't have gotten a single detail right about how my life and behavior could change with infinite food+water, a spear that could kill a thousand tigers at once, a spirit-painting that told me the wisdom of every elder and chief ever, and a lifespan of 80 years.

So that's my point. You can't say something "won't fix anything" before you can even visualise the magnitude of this something's effects.

November 20, 2012 at 9:21 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

So how do you do that when the Cathedral has the ability coercivsly to transfer wealth from non-progressives to progressives?

Go after their institutions at the state level like Scott Walker did in Wisconsin when he took the axe to the public sector unions.

The Cathedral institution most in need of being defunded is the university system. Other Cathedral operations such as newspapers and private & public sector unions are declining. Newspapers especially are hosed because high quality and small computer tablets are easy for older people to hold and use than other computers.

But the college system is becoming more corrupt and wealthier by the day because of college tuition hikes.

We should lobby state legislators to implement policies that will, on the surface, lower the cost of tuition at public colleges while also defunding all non-STEM and non-business college departments.

November 21, 2012 at 5:49 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Here are some suggestions for policies which will defund the Cathedral, from tiering college tuition to eliminating gened requirements:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/should-colleges-force-liberal-arts-students-to-pay-more/264417/

Down in Florida, a task force commissioned by Governor Rick Scott is putting the finishing touches on a proposal that would allow the state's public universities to start charging undergraduates different tuition rates depending on their major. Students would get discounts for studying topics thought to be in high demand among Florida employers. Those would likely include science, technology, engineering, and math (aka, the STEM fields), among others.

But Art History? Gender Studies? Classics? Sorry, but the fates are cruel. Unless a university could show that local companies were clamoring to hire humanities students, those undergrads would have to pay more for their diploma.

Ramesh: Overemphasizing the Liberal Arts

http://thedartmouth.com/2012/10/25/opinion/ramesh

While most countries begin specialization early in high school, the United States has a unique tradition in liberal arts education. In India, students begin to specialize in their “plus two” years, the equivalent of their junior and senior years of high school. Based on the track they choose, they apply to colleges for a specific program. Computer science majors would not take any literature courses, and business students would not take biology classes. Most proponents of the liberal arts argue that a well-rounded education provides broader tools to tackle a wide range of problems, and, presumably, such personal development also plays a crucial role in happiness.

However, from an employment perspective, a liberal arts education is disastrous. With 53 percent of all college graduates under the age of 25 unemployed or severely underemployed, this economy does not offer the luxury of postponing specialization until graduate school. According to Payscale, the top 10 schools with the best starting salaries were all technical schools, with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, California Institute of Technology and Loma Linda University topping the list. Many students know from the beginning that they want to pursue a field in a hard science, and for them the “liberal arts” education is nothing but an obstacle. As these fields have shown, solving specialized, narrow problems is incredibly valuable, if not more valuable than solving broad, wide-ranging problems.

snip

I’m not espousing the superiority of hard sciences over all other fields of study, nor am I claiming that the humanities are not worthy of study. Rather, if a student wishes to pursue the humanities or the sciences, then let him do so without mandates. Not everyone comes to college with the hope of earning an enormous starting salary, and that is perfectly understandable. Those who believe in a broad-based approach to education will continue to take classes from a variety of departments, but those who want to utilize their four years in specialization and honing their talents in a field should be offered the same opportunity.

November 21, 2012 at 5:51 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Continued


http://www.popecenter.org/commentaries/article.html?id=2763

And that’s about it. Certainly, it would be nice to include many other topics. But the need for efficiency means that many staples of existing general education programs, such as literature, foreign languages, or art appreciation, must be excluded. While desirable, they cannot truly be called essential for an understanding of the world.

Restricting general education courses to a select few will be extremely unpopular with some faculty. There are large numbers of teaching jobs at stake: many departments that now teach popular general education courses could lose half or more of their students. If that were to occur, financial sanity dictates that faculty jobs in those programs be cut. (Of course, new jobs will be created at the same time for specialists in the essential subjects.)

But this is not about professors and their jobs; it is about the intellectual development of students. For a long time, academia has been hesitant to make judgments about what knowledge is the most valuable. As a result, many general education programs are of little value. Our institutions of higher learning can, and should, do better.

November 21, 2012 at 5:52 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

For emphasis, let the fornicating dorm urchins cut class to lay off as many Cathedral bureaucrats as possible:

Restricting general education courses to a select few will be extremely unpopular with some faculty. There are large numbers of teaching jobs at stake: many departments that now teach popular general education courses could lose half or more of their students. If that were to occur, financial sanity dictates that faculty jobs in those programs be cut. (Of course, new jobs will be created at the same time for specialists in the essential subjects.)

November 21, 2012 at 5:56 AM  
Anonymous Golden Dawn NYC said...

Golden Dawn New York branch website:

https://xaameriki.wordpress.com/

November 22, 2012 at 10:58 PM  
Anonymous Golden Dawn NYC said...

If you are in the New York area, support the Golden Dawn New York branch. There is also a branch in Montreal, and offices in Chicago, Stamford, and Toronto will be opening soon.

November 22, 2012 at 11:06 PM  
Blogger Debra said...

What a pleasure reading you, undiscovered jew...
As one.. talmudist to another, I prefer to talmudize... Shakespeare, and literature, rather than compulsing the Book, after all... I think that Shakespeare is really the Bible without God... at least without God nominally... isn't that perfect for a Jewish approach ? ;-)
Did you know that the word "efficiency" goes right back to the efficiency of God ?
A trait of the divine. (But that's so logical, isn't it ?)
On specialization...
More than 10 years ago I took my young doctor to be checked out by an allergy specialist (M.D.).
And since he had the obnoxious habit of making me wait unnecessarily in his office, and dictating his reports about other patients while he was in the consultation with my daughter and me, one day I lugged my edition of Plato's dialogues, and proceeded to read while he turned me off...
And when he asked me what I was reading, I told him, and he said, in awe... "I never studied Latin in scholl"... (dumb and ignorant, me, I didn't even pick up on the.. error until later).
Hmmm... how many years did he spend sweating it out in specialization without learning that Plato was Greek ??
The goal of a liberal arts education was ? is ? to produce an informed citizenry capable of thinking for itself. A humanist education.
But... a TECHNOlogos society has no need for an informed citizenry.
Indeed... WW2 showed us that a TECHNOlogos civilization has no need of... flesh and blood citizens at all...
Episode number.. 3 coming right up, now.
243 eductorw

November 25, 2012 at 10:15 AM  
Blogger Debra said...

Oops, Freudian slip..
not my young doctor, but my young... daughter.
My young doctor is the other child..

November 25, 2012 at 10:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@multiheaded

Please stop commenting here and on LessWrong. You are embarrassing yourself.

The fact that you addressed your comment to mencius, and then stated you were a long-time reader, obviously implies that you aren't a long-time reader. If you were, you'd know he has explicitly stated he doesn't read his comment section anymore, and hasn't in quite a long while. You probably found his site through the Less Wrong discussion, half-read some posts, and shot your mouth off in an effort at status-seeking on LessWrong. The fact that you are so bombastic on LessWrong screams attention-seeking of the "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME" kind.

November 25, 2012 at 5:49 PM  
Anonymous oglaf said...

Want to see amateurs in home-made crowns pretend to open kindergartens? barelyregal.com

November 26, 2012 at 1:42 AM  
Anonymous Rabbi Moshe said...

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Anyhow, I'm easy to find online so if you're interested, feel free to contact me.

As for fellow readers, here's a complimentary 25 minute download from the series

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_4drS6wLItUYkxDQ2JmbnFWQW8

And here's my website

www.exoticjewishhistory.com

----

Local readership is likely to have the iontelligence to be able to appreciate my series the best so I assume you'll like the sample. To further encourage you to buy the series, just drop me an email (it's on the main page of my site) after you bought the series and I'll send you back $15.

Enjoy!

Moshe



November 26, 2012 at 12:34 PM  
Anonymous анонимный said...

Anonymous, you make Multiheaded sound like a typical unworldly nerd. He is an unworldly nerd, but he also has dark currents in him, far deeper and richer than anything found in most people here or at Less Wrong. If he finds within himself enough genius to express them, the result will be something very new and worthwhile, like a poetic gnostic-leftist riposte to Nick Land. He just has to get his act together somehow.

November 26, 2012 at 3:25 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

What a pleasure reading you, undiscovered jew...

You should be honored to be in my cyber presence.

Hmmm... how many years did he spend sweating it out in specialization without learning that Plato was Greek ??
The goal of a liberal arts education was ? is ? to produce an informed citizenry capable of thinking for itself. A humanist education.
But... a TECHNOlogos society has no need for an informed citizenry.


In a "TechnoLogos" state almost all of the classics are available for free on Google Books and can be read at leisure on iPads. There is no reason why absorbing literature should cost $200,000 in non-dischargeable loans.

Btw, your uncultured doctor presumably spent much of his high school and college years taking liberal arts classes. If he still didn't absorb the great literature perhaps that's an indication the liberal arts have failed to impress the importance of the Western canon on the youths.

November 26, 2012 at 5:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I suspect you may be either bi-polar, or suicidal, or both.

You mention France in this post,so you know how shitty the place is,I assume. One of the things that makes France so shitty is that everyone essentially works part time, and everyone is essentially on some form of government dole.

If you keep up on business news, I assume you know by now that all the biggest employers in this country are cutting back everyone's hours drastically,to afford said shitty European-style government dole here and economic growth-killing confiscatory measure put in place by none other than Obama.

Check and mate,cocksucker. Everyone who voted for Obama just fucked themselves up the ass royally. Now you can work 3 or 4 jobs or you can starve to death. Hell, with quantitative easing inflating the dollar indefinitely, you'll probably still starve to death. And when the ghetto dwellers get tired of working 3 or 4 jobs and still starving, who do you think they're going to shoot and rob? That's right, rich liberal whites.

How do I know this? Because unlike ya'll, I lived side by side with them for a large part of my life. You don't even know. They're gonna tear you apart like fucking animals when the welfare checks stop coming. And Obama's bringing in millions more of the same types and giving them amnesty.

As they say in the hood,"You gonna fuckin die,homey".

Where are you going to run to? Thanks to the liberals, you've got no place left on earth where you won't get exactly the same treatment when you show up there.

It's kind of funny in a way. It'll be bad for all of us, but you upper middle class assholes who looked down your noses your whole life at me and my people? You retarded,weak,soft,pathetic little dickheads who spend all your time with your theories and your Communist Manifestoes in your safe little gated communities? Your future's going to look an awful lot like a real-life reenactment of Lord of the Flies.

I can't wait to see the looks on your faces.

You'd think with as much so-called education as you guys receive you'd see that pretty much every revolution in history was caused by the lower classes not having enough to eat,the Russian revolution,the Chinese Revolution, the French Revolution,even the American Revolution,although we got pissed off before any serious problems erupted from excessive taxation.

And you know what the first thing most of these people did was? Kill all the "rich" people. And guess what? That's you. If you're richer than a black guy working as a janitor,or a fresh-off-the-boat Mexican working at a chicken factory, "you's a dead muthafucka".

Be seein' you around, either in Hell or hanging from a tree.

November 27, 2012 at 5:14 AM  
Blogger Gabe Ruth said...

TUJ, your solution to the Cathedral's dominance is shared by a slightly different writer:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/11/hipsters_on_food_stamps.html

Nonny 5:14, you should spend some time poking around there, too. Let the hate flow through you.

November 27, 2012 at 6:08 AM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

Multi:

The idea of transhumanism is that a longer life and greater intelligence will change the way we behave.

It's cute but wrong. We're still monkeys, etc. Eliezer knows this in his heart but keeps ignoring it.

Either that or he's ignorant. Same difference, really.

Anyway, TUJ & Debra, etc:

Ways to kill the Cathedral:

Replace all public schools with something that resemble Sudbury Schools without the democracy. That is, free inquiry with intelligent instructors and no set schedule.

Encourage specialization as early as possible (note: we *used to* do this--we stopped because [like so many things] "it's racist").

Now regarding the university system: it's a sticky widget. The whole problem is that (under current guidelines) we need people taking them English courses etc who are smart so they can teech reel good.

Also it's a bit odd to charge more for the classes that result in lower salaries.

At any rate, all of that's going to fall apart because of the MMORPG version of online classrooms (MOOC is the name, elimination of individuality's the game) which only serves to strengthen the Cathedral.

November 27, 2012 at 7:27 AM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

TUJ, your solution to the Cathedral's dominance is shared by a slightly different writer:

She makes the mistake of implying pulling funding for liberal arts majors would seriously disrupt the Cathderal's operations. This is incorrect. There aren't enough humanities majors to keep the biggest trouble makers, the non-business and non-STEM departments, solvent.

The funding for the hardcore leftist profs originates from the 50-60 credit hours worth of general education, not humanities majors. If the 80% of students who are not humanities majors are allowed to skip their gened classes 50% of liberal arts professors could be laid off.

With newspapers being gutted by the internet and computer tablets, private and public unions coming under attack at the local level, the next target for defunding should be the university system.

The gened requirements could be eliminated by Republican state level legislators. They could eliminate it either by giving high school students college credit for their basic high school classes. e.g., high school English with any grade better than an F eliminates college level English, high school history eliminates college level history, etc, etc. Or they could just force public colleges to offer all of their bachelor degrees in 60-90 credit formats where there are no gened requirements at all.

And before anyone brings it up, I'm aware there are CLEP tests that high schoolers canco use to cross off gened requirements, but few students know about these tests. In order to get mass defections out of the gened I want a much simpler and faster option to opt out of them.

http://www.popecenter.org/commentaries/article.html?id=2763

Restricting general education courses to a select few will be extremely unpopular with some faculty. There are large numbers of teaching jobs at stake: many departments that now teach popular general education courses could lose half or more of their students. If that were to occur, financial sanity dictates that faculty jobs in those programs be cut. (Of course, new jobs will be created at the same time for specialists in the essential subjects.)

November 28, 2012 at 5:16 PM  
Anonymous The Undiscovered Jew said...

Now regarding the university system: it's a sticky widget. The whole problem is that (under current guidelines) we need people taking them English courses etc who are smart so they can teech reel good.

Intelligent college students have already taken English in high school. There's still no reason for them to take gened reqs even if the university system were as politically conservative as Jesse Helms.

Also it's a bit odd to charge more for the classes that result in lower salaries.

Higher paying college majors often pay more for their degrees than humanities majors do. The humanities are, of course, more heavily NAM so having STEM and business subsidize the humanities is really just another transfer of white wealth to minorities.

However, I agree with you that tiering tuition may not be politically the best way to market a defunding maneuver against the Cathedral. Instead, we should emphasize how anti-Cathedral inititiatives such as making both federal and private tuition loans dischargeable after 3 years will make college more affordable for the middle class and the poor and how eliminating the gened will save students 18 months to 2 years worth of tuition for the middle class and the poor.

A change at the federal level to bankruptcy laws would take federal action. However altering gened reqs can be done at the state level. Once tuition prices are effectively cut in half at many public colleges, price competition will enter the Cathedral system and even many private colleges will have to offer gened free majors or risk losing too many high income students (who are subsidizing the poorer students) to public colleges.

All we need is for one state college system to, one way or another, scrap the general education and the whole crooked academic structure will start to implode financially.

November 28, 2012 at 5:24 PM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

TUJ:

I meant English (and other humanities) majors, not pre-reqs (though you'd be amazed at the ignorance of the general college student when it comes to writing ability--i.e. communication).

I like the 2nd half of your post very much.

November 29, 2012 at 8:21 AM  
Anonymous RS said...

Check through the past couple days of zerohedge. Default on student loans has gone vertical. Durden's comparing it to subprime in many ways. While it was no very stylish victory, it seems 'Occupy' more or less won and the undischargable thing will be rolled back.

November 29, 2012 at 11:51 AM  
Anonymous RS said...

It's a trillion dollars, so hopefully Buffet or Bill Gates or some other trillionaire will offer to pick up the tab.

November 29, 2012 at 11:54 AM  
Anonymous Brett Stevens said...

Louis XVI, too, was a basically decent and capable individual - believe it or not. France could have thrived under him and his heirs to the present time. Indeed France without the Revolution - any European nation without the Revolution - would be the greatest nation on earth today. America not excepted.

This was one of the realizations that sent me along my current course of roots conservatism: the French Revolution was not the oppressed rising up. It was the incompetent blaming others for their problems.

We see this pattern again and again. In America now, we're blaming the rich for our problems, so that we can make everyone content and stave off bigger problems. And yet this never works. It just produces more Costaguanas, in which formerly first-world nations descend through dysfunction into third-world status.

I can't agree on the cynicism toward the election however. Romney was a chance to turn around direction, regroup and move on. Now that he has lost, we can turn our ire toward the complacent and lazy GOP establishment which bungled ORCA and other campaign necessities. It will be good to clear out the dead wood there.

The biggest problem I see is that realist-thinking folk have no idea what they want. They're divided and underconfident. Rallying behind something tangible, such as a Romney election, would keep us from revolutionary thought and other pitfalls.

I wish I could believe in revolutions, but I do not. Most commonly, they follow the French pattern: ideological fervor culminating in a circular firing squad, at which point it all falls apart and the basest human instincts take over. When that settles out, you get a liberal regime.

November 29, 2012 at 10:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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November 30, 2012 at 3:55 AM  
Anonymous Kai, last of the Brunnen-G said...

I have killed mothers with their babies. I have killed great philosophers, proud young warriors, and revolutionaries. I have killed the evil, the good, the intelligent, the weak, and the beautiful. I have done this in the service of His Divine Shadow and his predecessors, and I have never once shown any mercy.

November 30, 2012 at 5:27 AM  

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