Friday, September 26, 2008 57 Comments

UR will return on Thursday, November 6

Because it seems vaguely antisocial and just plain rude, like eating a BLT in a mosque, to operate an anti-democracy blog during our nation's great celebration of freedom and unity.

I urge all UR readers to vote for Senator Obama. I have considered the issue carefully, and concluded that a vote for Obama is a vote for change. And America needs change.

In the "odds and ends" category, the Times profiles a Resartus-like operation, Opposing Views. It's still pretty lame by my standards, but it's a long way above "teh badest celebertiy."

If you are one of the large number of people to whom I owe an email - or two - I will be incommunicado for at least a week, on account of travel. This does not excuse my rudeness, but perhaps it explains it. I swear on a stack of Bibles this high that October will be Email Month.

There is also a code word, which is "Jonathan."


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obama's position on supporting the infanticide of the unborn prevents any Christian from voting for him with a clear conscience.

September 26, 2008 at 9:14 AM  
Anonymous m said...

Mencius is voting for Obama because he thinks the presidency is symbolic - because real power is held by the civil service, the media, and the universities, having a Republican in the presidency gives people the illusion that their votes actually matter. He also thinks power and responsibility should go together, and that Progressives should be held accountable for their actions (instead of dictating from unelected canopies).

I see his points, but I still disagree. Given the present realities of the world, I am a proponent of gridlock - a slow, Breznevian sclerosis (as Mencius puts it) rather than an implosion of FDR proportions. Obama's beliefs, as GNXP has stated numerous times, are axiomatically unsound, dangerous, and delusional, and I think his ascension to the presidency would a nightmare of epic proportions for anyone who loves liberty and justice. The presidency is more than merely symbolic - it has significant powers in international relations and in checking the excesses of the legislature with a veto.

I think Iran will nuke Israel through one of its proxies within the next 5 years, especially under an Obama administration.

Then again, I think Mccain is itching to start WW3 with Russia. "We are all Georgians now" my ass.

So...maybe I won't be voting after all.

September 26, 2008 at 11:24 AM  
Anonymous Blode said...

Apology accepted, Lord Moldy.

M cleared that up pretty well. I was going to say, "If leftism is the quickest way to prove the system doesn't work, how come that makes all the rightists say we should vote for Obama? Isn't McCain a leftist too? Isn't he a vote for change? How come this never helps the fake allies of the right, anyway?"

Not that I recommend a vote for McCain-Palin. I would only vote for them if Sandra Bernhard were staring over my shoulder while I did it.

I feel about Bob Barr the way Steve Sailer feels about George Romney's boy. "What is wrong with this guy anyway? Why doesn't anyone like him?" Sometimes I think instead of counting votes, we should just count political parties. There are more formally socialist parties, and more actually anti-socialist parties, than there are "mainstream" (nominally anti-socialist socialist parties).

Formalize elections by pitting the Socialist Labor Party and the New Alliance Party against the Libertarian Party and the Constitutional Party!

September 26, 2008 at 11:57 AM  
Blogger Jewish Atheist said...

We'll see how many of your "true believers" are just racists and/or Republican tribalists in disguise. I bet 1% vote for Obama. They think you're a genius (and I agree, although I'm not saying you're necessarily right about things) but they're not about to vote for a Black democrat.

September 26, 2008 at 12:25 PM  
Anonymous randy said...

Its their country, not mine. Elections are none of my concern.

September 26, 2008 at 3:11 PM  
Blogger Victor said...

I suspect Moldy might be 'endorsing' Obama on the Dumas principle -- "I prefer the wicked to the foolish, because the wicked sometimes rest" -- given his regard for Dems and GOP and the Evil and the Stupid party respectively.

September 27, 2008 at 10:14 AM  
Anonymous cranky matron said...

Heck yeah, I'm voting for Obama.

I'm still young, with a strong back and stomach, and I'd rather bear the brunt of a spectacular collapse myself than pawn a slow suffocating death onto my children.

Onliest people in the US that I feel sorry for right now are the elderly Vaisyas. At least most of them have adult children they can move in with.


September 27, 2008 at 11:30 AM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

A vote for Obama is a vote for total collapse -- which is a vote for a restart.

woo hoo!

September 27, 2008 at 7:58 PM  
Anonymous m said...

G.M. Palmer: I imagine if you lived 80 years ago, you would have said the same thing about FDR. Look how that turned out....

September 27, 2008 at 8:52 PM  
Anonymous PA said...

There was nothing irreversible about FDR's administrations. Or much of anything else in American history.

With the great exception of the Immigration Act of 1965 and all subsequent campaigns of Population Replacement.

September 28, 2008 at 4:40 AM  
Blogger Black Sea said...

Jewish Atheist,

Your comments here are usually worth reading, but in this case, you've done yourself (and us) a disservice.

"We'll see how many of your 'true believers' are just racists and/or Republican tribalists in disguise."

Mencius does have something of a fan club here, but on how many of of his other ideas and proposals do you think his so-called "true believers" have taken concrete action of any sort?

Are they attempting to establish a neocameralist form of government. If so, how? Are they out there actively seeking to toss the Brahmins from their perch? If so, how?

Accusing people of racism/tribalism simply because they elect not to vote for Obama may fly at the Daily Kos, but I'm surprised you've tried it here. As I've said, based on your past comments, I would have expected better.

As for me, I won't be voting, which is no particular rejection of "a Black democrat." I haven't voted since Bush/Clinton in 1992. And I had my doubts about doing so even then.

One reason why I visit this site (whether or not it makes me a "true believer" I don't know) is that it calls into question the efficacy of our political process. The fact that I don't have some ready-made, full-fledged alternative to which I am wholly committed doesn't obligate me to invest in the current process the commitment necessary to vote.

I do believe that non-participation is in itself an expression of something, though I doubt very much that those in power care why I am opting out. I have adopted the attitude that if I ever sense a politically significant enough distinction between the two main candidates, (I'm talking conviction and action here, not rhetoric), and if I am ever sufficiently confident of the abilities of one over the other, (usally a tough call, since they routinely both seem so almost surrealistically horrible, to me anyway) then I will rouse myself to vote. But that doesn't happen often.

(By the way, Bill, if you're a UR reader, it's you I voted in '92. Can I have a job with Fannie/Freddie now?)

As to all my countrymen back home (I live abroad), come Nov. 6, pull that lever wıth gusto, or punch that card, or tap that screen, or however it is that one casts one's vote these days. It may seem a bit of an empty gesture, but then, there are a lot of "true believers" at this site who would say the same of Sunday communion. Who knows, maybe there's something to it that I'm missing.

September 28, 2008 at 11:25 PM  
Blogger Black Sea said...

By the way, there is also the very real possibility that Mencius' endorsement of Obama was tongue-in-cheek. I certainly took it that way when I first read it, though as you'll see in my comment above, I'm predisposed to take politics that way.

I do, however, hope that whoever is elected, he has the (fill in the blank with a positive character attribute) to begin the very long and probably impossible task of disentangling the enormous cluster-fuck that America has become.

Yeah, yeah, I know, things have always been a mess. And so they have. But since I don't see our political process even attempting to cope with the mess - contributing to it would be a more accurate description - I'll have to place my hopes elsewhere. Or just live with it.

September 28, 2008 at 11:37 PM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

m -- pretty poorly for the country, I'd say. B

ut there was no way FDR's policies were going to start a riot because people needed to eat. Very few people are starving anymore in America -- which means when they see rank socialism, they tend to react negatively.

Vid the current backlash against the buyout plan -- members of congress are actually apprehensive (for once) about spending money because the vast majority of Amurricans raised their heads from the TV bong and said "what they hell?" when they heard "700 billion dollars."

September 29, 2008 at 6:03 AM  
Anonymous Lawful Neutral said...

Jewish Atheist, were you hoping for a repeat of Half Sigma's "They Live" moment a few weeks ago when he saw his commenters for the hideous slavering beasts they are?

September 29, 2008 at 6:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A vote for Obama is a vote for total collapse -- which is a vote for a restart.

So you've stocked up on guns and food and have a remote cabin prepared?

September 29, 2008 at 7:24 AM  
Blogger Zimri said...

Half Sigma bought into the Palin pregnancy nonsense, like Andrew Sullivan; and so has exactly Andrew Sullivan's credibility in my eyes which is to say none.

Let's not even bring up Half Sigma's name in this comment thread.

September 29, 2008 at 1:30 PM  
Blogger Zimri said...

(To add some value to this conversation: Lawful Neutral is referring to 0.5σ's various threads about Obama's IQ, culminating in this one)

September 29, 2008 at 1:49 PM  
Anonymous Blode said...

I can't figure out why anyone would think Obama's race OR his intelligence constitute valid reasons to vote against him. He believes he and his followers are "instruments of God" destined to create a "kingdom on Earth". He believes a small mob of black athletes beating a white kid's face in constitutes a "fight". He wanted to physically attack a classmate when that man wondered aloud if it would be tough to be the only black man on a sports team.

The crypto-socialists say, "Vote for our candidates - it's the only way to save America!" The anti-socialists say, "Vote for the crypto-socialists - it's the only way to destroy crypto-socialism (and save America)!" So I guess you can find consensus if you look hard enough. I remember so many people on the left saying the same thing about Reagan in the late 70s and early 80s.

Much as I love Moldbug, I worry that this post represents a decent into the punditry he has savaged so effectively in the past. Sailer and Moldbug both loathe everything Obama and McCain stand for, but Sailer is content to say what he means (which doesn't include any real identifiable opinions about any candidates outside of the Big Useless Parties, unfortunately).

Obviously you can't look back at 1964 and call it a big success for conservatives and libertarians. I am still, however, disturbed sort of "Grand Inquisitor" style visions I have.

Imagine: if Barry Goldwater were to be a healthy 50-year-old with some political experience and a different name and less threatening eyeglasses, and he were to find himself on the Presidential ballot in 42.5 states, would he be treated by today's conservatives and libertarians any better than Baldwin, Castle, Barr, Root, and Paul? By "treated" I don't mean "regarded as"; I mean, would anyone even notice him?

So, Goldwater was greater than any of those other blokes. Fine. If he were 50 years old and running today, we still wouldn't know, because no one would pay him any mind.

And it's not because "the President is just a figurehead" or any of that nonsense thrown around (presumably by people who think the nuclear football "isn't a big deal"). If the neo-Goldwater were backed by dozens of Congressional candidates, and Gubernatorials backed by hundreds of Legislatives, I still don't think anyone would notice.

The neo-Goldwater would get about as much support as the President of Harvard got a while back, or the discoverer of DNA got, or Solzhenitsyn got.

September 29, 2008 at 2:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This whole election is convincing me that expectations that a system will provide the individual with freedom are inherently wrongheaded. Why do "independent" parties always fail? Because independent people don't "party up" as well as the next guy. Don't form a "Non-Joiners' Club" and expect to get any members. The Joiners will always beat you.

As mm has shown, there is a Laffer maximum in taxes. Why not for other kinds of freedom? A system which allowed more freedom might well freedom itself all the way to serfdom. Hell if I know.

My library has a big fat stack of books on a table under a sign that says "BANNED BOOKS". Meaning "books that some nasty (and powerless) conservative found to be offensive". Books that kindhearted (and powerful) leftists find offensive are not banned, they are just forgotten. The leftists have enough power to define the bans they perpetrate as "non-bans".

Thousands of high school students read Johnny Got His Gun every year and think it is an anti-war novel.

But what do I have to complain about, here in my "metaphorical prison"? There are people in actual prisons who claim to have found mental freedom, by turning inward. I'm certainly not any worse off. Demanding that others stop escaping from freedom, stop voting for Patriot Act promoters, etc. - those are at root egotistical demands. Demands that the universe change to suit me.

I can't just pick some random country not infested with American-flavored statism. Other flavors of statism are equally foul. The world is the world, and a hundred or a thousand countries has laws worse than the Patriot Act, statists worse than Bush and Rove.

Beyond loving America, the only sensible thing an American can do at this point is seek and create freedom in their own lives. If the world does hit the fan, at least we can be proud of that.

September 29, 2008 at 3:56 PM  
Blogger Alrenous said...

Immediately Preceding Anonymous, you need to get a handle, because I want to read more like that.

I liked almost all of it, but this is my favourite bit;

Hell if I know.

But it certainly seems likely, doesn't it? To have maximal freedom requires order, which clearly implies some limits on freedom.

September 30, 2008 at 12:24 AM  
Blogger G. M. Palmer said...

The anonymous curve of freedom.

September 30, 2008 at 4:00 AM  
Anonymous Curve of Freedom said...

Okay ladies and gents, I shall now go by Curve of Freedom as sort-of suggested by G.M. Palmer.

Some thoughts:

No matter how unoffended you are by pornography, does this seem plausible? Adult book store opens in an area. Ordinary women feel less comfortable and avoid the area. Portion of women who are prostitutes rises, increasing the frequency of johns soliciting the wrong people. Discomfort rises and soon almost no one there isn't taking part in prostitution. Informal zoning?

Formal zoning could deal with the problem, right? We already have built-in ways that areas can differ from the nation - states. They have general legislative power. The could legalize murder fercryinoutloud. AFAIK one of them has zoned prostitution. One used to have decriminalized marijuana.

Probition. 18th Amendment?? If three quarters of the legislatures were willing to pass an amendment to the US constitution banning booze (somehow whether or not liquor is legal determines partly how the state is "constituted"?) You'd think there'd be plenty of states previous to that who'd banned liquor on their own, showing us how well that approach wouldn't work, but they don't.

How many states have premiers, on the Canadian model, instead of executive governors? None. The labs of reform aren't doing that experiment.

How many have a system in place where any gun-owner (defined as part of the militia by J. Madison) is automatically put under command of a state-appointed officer (required by J. Madison) to form an organized but unpaid State Militia (there can be no other kind per J. Madison)? That particular "experiment" is actually the only allowable system, per the same document that bans Federal education, housing, and social insurance policies.

But I digress. Point is: I'm used to the Federal government acting as if it were a state government, I'm just weirded out by the states not acting like states.

September 30, 2008 at 10:11 AM  
Anonymous Curve of Freedom said...

One of the most irritating government-like entities I've lived under is a homeowners' association. (I moved away, not because they were annoying.) Per libertarian principles, they were by far the governmentish thing with the most rights to be annoying, since I joined voluntarily. Per localist principles, ditto, since they covered such a small area. Ditto per democratic principles, since I formed an incomparably large percent of the voters (I was 1.7% of the voters, about). Yet I chafed more under their rule (I could NOT get them to tell me if I could replace my front door!) than I do under the preposterous USA with its Patronizing Act, etc.

Mm is always saying Singapore is fairly close to his ideal; others point out that it has the most annoying laws in the world (like getting spanked for spitting, do I have that right??) Yet you can waltz away whenever you want. People generally don't. Hmmm. I think I could control my love of snuff (just kidding I can't stand chewing tobacco) if it meant the crime rate and taxes would be low.

So there it is again: Hell if I know. I have no idea how to make a country free or happy.

September 30, 2008 at 10:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like my HOAs. I actually belong to two - the town and the neighborhood cluster. I don't want to do anything crazy to my house, and the HOAs stop my neighbors from doing anything crazy to theirs. In contrast, a buddy of mine (who lives in a town with no HOAs) tells me his neighbors built a two-story high aviary in their back yard and filled it with screaming parrots. That, I don't need...

September 30, 2008 at 10:42 AM  
Anonymous Curve of Freedom said...

Maybe HOAs, like the police, aren't given enough credit. They're clear and present enough that their irritation factor is omnipresent, but you have to consciously think about what they do to appreciate them. The Feds just take your money out of your paycheck and give it to other people. And give you a statement about how much you would be making if something great happened like you break your back. "Social Security - because you never when you'll TURN 65!!"

September 30, 2008 at 2:36 PM  
Anonymous cnorsl said...

curve of freedom, many states did enact prohibition in the decades before the federal amendment was passed. However, I think that the motivations were mostly religious in nature, so they were unconcerned with how well it worked in practice. Some even kept it long after it was repealed on the national level.

I think you are right that in general the states have failed as laboratories for government. The constitution requires only that they have a "republican" form, but as far as I know every single one merely replicates the federal structures in miniature.

These days, of course, when a state does try to deviate from federal policy even on minor issues, the federal government does everything it can to bring them back into line. (eg marijuana in CA)

October 1, 2008 at 8:54 AM  
Anonymous Curve of Freedom said...


Yes, you're right about state-level prohibition pre-18th Amendment. I'll look it up, and I'm pretty sure I'll find much less than three quarters of the states having enacted it, which will be faintly annoying.

It's amazing what small differences between states will enduce people to say, "OMG! In ___ state they're soooo weird" like the whole political culture has gone Valley Girl. In North Carolina, the governor has no veto. In Vermont, the governor serves a two-year term. In Nebraska, the legislature is unicameral and nonpartisan. Whoa! Like, space aliens!

October 1, 2008 at 11:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol@jewish atheist

Spoken like a true kossack.



October 2, 2008 at 12:42 AM  
Anonymous Blode said...

Beyond that, last anonymous, Jewish Atheist is also throwing adolescent insults at Half Sigma for not endorsing Obama. Apparently if you've been against Obama (and socialism in general) all along, you're not really a "man" unless you endorse Obama now.

Man, I wish I could have a t-shirt that said "Jewish Atheist Called Me a Racist". That's one piece of legible apparel I'd be proud to wear! Just kidding. Of course it wouldn't work, because people would interpret it as a criticism of Jewish athiests in general ... which may have something to do with why s/he chose that as a screen name.

October 2, 2008 at 9:30 AM  
Blogger The Ashen Man said...

Rather off-topic (but what is the topic?),
is an excellent article in British populist-libertarian magazine Spiked, "The revolting world of middle class prejudice." Not only is it very entertaining, but it also illustrates the point I made in a previous thread about the very different uses of the term "middle class" here and there - you'll see middle class used to mean, essentially, Brahmin. In case anyone's interested. I also note Palin actually said "working class" tonight. Good on her.

October 2, 2008 at 10:13 PM  
Anonymous boldgum said...

Hey everyone, did you hear the one about the blogger who thought he was "The Shiznit", and his blog "The Shit", who, in true Hitlerian/Rickmoodian-fashion wouldn't respond to, nay, deleted, a legitimate question concerning how one of the two main candidates for presidency could be "better" in any significant way than the other when it is clear from their positions that they both wholeheartedly with impunity support the following:

1) Perpetual war again Muslims

2) A massive transfer of wealth from poor people to super rich people

3) Outright bald-faced lies about Russian aggression in Georgia, possibly leading to WWIII

and who, when asked, "What did you do during the collapse of the United States of America?", replied, "I wrote the blog and edited the comments section of Unqualified Reservations"?

October 3, 2008 at 4:17 AM  
Anonymous Lawful Neutral said...

and who, when asked, "What did you do during the collapse of the United States of America?", replied, "I wrote the blog and edited the comments section of Unqualified Reservations"?

So tell us BG, what did you do? Stockpile weapons? Develop sustainable aquaculture technologies to support a mass exodus to sea? Buy the Gambia and transform it into a reactionary utopia?

Also, what the heck does "Rickmoodian" mean? Google is clueless.

October 3, 2008 at 7:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What lies about Russian aggression in Georgia you talkin' 'bout, Willis?

October 3, 2008 at 7:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...




October 3, 2008 at 9:07 PM  
Anonymous m said...

Does this blog seem like it's written by Mencius? I get the feeling that it is ...

October 5, 2008 at 8:30 AM  
Anonymous Lawful Neutral said...

I just read Tom Wolfe's "The 'Me' Decade and the Third Great Awakening" for the first time. Anyone interested in MM's Universalism-as-radical-Protestantism themes will find a lot to think about there, particularly on the last page.

October 5, 2008 at 11:20 PM  
Blogger Rottweiler said...

"I have considered the issue carefully, and concluded that a vote for Obama is a vote for change. And America needs change."

Someone please tell me this is just wonderful dry humor that MM is blessing us with.

I've searched my vast intellect and cannot come up with anything even remotely plausible as to how Obama represents change.

In fact, I'm quite sure he would be the worst president ever. Well, er, except for that other guy Mc-whatezname.

And who/what is "Jonathan"? The only thing I can come up with is a reference from a Frank Peretti novel but I'm not yet ready to believe Obama is a demon. A demon-in-training, perhaps.

October 6, 2008 at 9:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


of course it's a joke, can any of you really picture mencius saying something as banal as "america needs change"?

wow, frank peretti, blast from the past--my grandmother used to send me his stuff. (the look on her face when i credited ayn rand with my "loss of faith"....)

what did i do while the country fell apart? i left. my assets are in SGD and my debts in USD. bring on the inflation, bitches.

October 6, 2008 at 11:33 PM  
Anonymous m said...

Hi Jim Rogers! (anonymous above me)

A word of caution - China's had 6000 years to make something of itself. Might be a bit premature to believe all the hype this time around...

IMO, these unelected capitalistic territories - Singapore, Dubai, China - are going to grow increasingly unstable in the upcoming depression as their legitimacy is based almost entirely on economic progress. At least with democracy you get the illusion of "we the people" to stifle unrest.

Anyway, I wish you luck living among Malays, Chinese, Muslims, and abject heat, humidity, and poor weather, and hope this upcoming depression isn't going to send you packing...


October 7, 2008 at 12:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You know what I am fucking sick and tired of? I am fucking sick and tired of the way leftists are always asking white people to "acknowledge" slavery and jim crow and ancient history, and they refuse to "acknowledge" the massive black-on-white gang rape that is going on now, aided and abetted by their weak or nonexistent response to crime, and their politicizing minorities into thinking that rape is "revenge" for something, as if whoever they raped were to blame for slavery.

The reason for this honesty-free state of affair? Acknowledging something that "your side" is responsible for is a sign of strength to a responsible adult, and a sign of weakness to a child. Leftists are just overgrown babies. They believe that since they're the ones who started complaining about interracial violence, they have an eternal monopoly on complaining.

Whitey admitted guilt - we've got him on the ropes - admit nothing and COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN.

An easy strategy even for people with an IQ of 85 to carry out. Once someone started acknowledging victimization patterns, the leftist house of guiltcards would come tumbling down.

I want reparations for rape. I want reparations for Zebra. I want reparations for affirmative action.

I want reparations from which ever brain-dead PC whackjob coined "people of color". I want reparations from Eldridge Cleaver and whoever made him a star.

October 7, 2008 at 10:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"m said...

Does this blog seem like it's written by Mencius? I get the feeling that it is ..."

You're not the only one. I was reading the comments on Megan McArdle's blog recently and read a comment that I immediately thought was Mencius. Got to the end and it was winterspeak. I know Mencius has commented on Megan's blog anonymously in the past (and he's mentioned her (and Will Wilkinson) on this blog).

This is probably not a unique insight but if you like Mencius, Neil Stephenson would be a very good author to check out. He discusses many of the same concepts in many of the same ways (for a sample, read NS's essay on digital money). (Re)Reading the Baroque cycle after having read Mencius is an interesting experience.

-Steve Johnson

October 7, 2008 at 5:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

heh. honestly, i moved to sg mostly out of boredom, and slightly out of disgust with american politics. the deal was more or less finalized by april, long before the second round of the crash.

the heat and humidity take some getting used to, but it's not as bad as the august in nyc, and it's nowhere near as bad as summer in the parts of the south where i grew up. and at least the rain is fairly predictable--heavy rain never lasts more than an hour, and is usually midday.

the diversity's not much different from nyc's, just a different mix of people. certainly the language issues aren't any worse....

October 7, 2008 at 8:14 PM  
Blogger Aaron Davies said...

Apropos of not a lot, I thought you guys might be amused to see the eruption of typical Universalist commentary currently occurring on Linus' new blog, specifically in this post about the elections.

October 7, 2008 at 9:10 PM  
Anonymous m said...

Steve Johnson:

If Mencius and Winter are the same person, he's certainly have a lot of fun arguing and agreeing with himself here:

They argue _so similarly_. If they're not the same person, I have money on the table that they're related.

October 7, 2008 at 10:27 PM  
Blogger Black Sea said...

"honestly, i moved to sg mostly out of boredom, . . ."

what is "sg"?

October 8, 2008 at 5:10 AM  
Anonymous Lawful Neutral said...

what is "sg"?
Singapore. I had to look it up.

October 8, 2008 at 9:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If Mencius and Winter are the same person, he's certainly have a lot of fun arguing and agreeing with himself here"

It's actually really illuminating; think of it as a classic dialog (although I don't know which form (for those of you who have Anathem)).

-Steve Johnson

October 10, 2008 at 5:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ugh, so careless when I post.

"who have read Anathem"

I feel much better now.

-Steve Johnson

October 10, 2008 at 5:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL@the anonymous going on about leftists. Yes, leftists are delusional, but the most violent moronic crowds at the moment are the right wingers. Have you see that video going around at a right wing rally where they were calling for the death of obama?

Massive political upheaval in this country won't come from surreptitious, gramscian leftists. It'll come from some right wing psychopath who has read too much Turner Diaries.

October 10, 2008 at 7:08 PM  
Anonymous Lawful Neutral said...

Massive political upheaval in this country won't come from surreptitious, gramscian leftists. It'll come from some right wing psychopath who has read too much Turner Diaries.

Well, that's certainly the party line, isn't it? I've been reading that in every paper and seeing it in every movie for my entire life. That doesn't mean it's wrong, of course.

If surreptitious, gramscian leftists were to drive the US into chaos and ruin, and intolerant fascist rightists took the opportunity to cause massive political upheaval, who would be to blame? I'd say it's safe to bet whoever lost.

We shall see. History is far from over, and its verdict is never final until nobody cares anymore.

October 11, 2008 at 4:01 AM  
Anonymous yjtuqmt said...

"If surreptitious, gramscian leftists were to drive the US into chaos and ruin, and intolerant fascist rightists took the opportunity to cause massive political upheaval, who would be to blame? I'd say it's safe to bet whoever lost."

Y'mean like, if a bunch of Communists were to infiltrate the US government and try to drive our defense policy into the ground, and a lone Senator were to shine the light on them, the Senator would come off as the bad guy and the Communists would be seen as innocent victims? But what about if the anti-anti-Communists were completely unable to prove that the Communists didn't exist, while the anti-Communists could easily prove that they did?

Surely the anti-anti-Communists wouldn't be able to prove anything with, say, a play set in 17th Century Massachusetts? And if they could, surely it wouldn't be in every high school classroom...?

Or what about black-on-white rape? Surely you couldn't prove that it never happens with a novel about a little girl and a lawyer who looks remarkably like Gregory Peck?

Every high school classroom?


October 13, 2008 at 5:48 PM  
Blogger Arthur B. said...

Sure we need change, but historically, political changes always tend to be for the worst. It is thus better to *avoid* political change.

Obama has a good potential to become the new FDR and bring a new new deal. McCain also does, but less so. The FDR presidency was arguably the worst turn in the history of the US. Sure enough there was "change" ! A move to fiat money, a credit trap called social security (the new incarnation will be probably be universal healthcare).

Yes we need change, but whereas change goes both way, political change goes one way, the wrong way.

October 24, 2008 at 7:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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